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Restoration Rights?


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368 replies to this topic

#1 Rhaegarsjoy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:36 PM

I love both the Starks and Dany but why is it ok for the Starks to get revenge and rebuild their home and not Dany? They both had their families brutally murdered and I don't think anyone can blame Dany for her father's crimes. The Starks were declared traitors, their home taken and they're pretty much on the run or hiding just like Dany has been for her whole life. So do they both deserve to get their homes back? OR Is one entitled but not the other?

And please no she's insane and deserves to die or go wherever crazy ppl go because there are 6799 threads for that. TY

#2 Morienthar

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:41 PM

I will for some time at least reclaim Kings Landing and the Iron throne,But the problem is all the people that actively participated in her family's demise are dead and any revenge she will have will be on the wrong people.

#3 WhiteWalder

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:41 PM

I love both the Starks and Dany but why is it ok for the Starks to get revenge and rebuild their home and not Dany? They both had their families brutally murdered and I don't think anyone can blame Dany for her father's crimes. The Starks were declared traitors, their home taken and they're pretty much on the run or hiding just like Dany has been for her whole life. So do they both deserve to get their homes back? OR Is one entitled but not the other?

And please no she's insane and deserves to die or go wherever crazy ppl go because there are 6799 threads for that. TY

I think you answered your own question, but didn't want to hear it.

#4 Lord Damian

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:45 PM

Dany's family deserved to be removed. The Starks are believed dead, that is why the Boltons slipped in as "wardens" .The Starks were betrayed by "sellouts" who cared nothing about oaths and honor and duty. Dany is carrying a banner that half of the realm despised due to injustices done to them by said house. the other half that supported the Targs simply had not yet received their injustice from them by the time the Rebellion started.

#5 IRON BANK

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:48 PM

Most famlies in my opinion are fighting for ambition or a means to gain more influence. But for the Starks and Dany I feel this fight is about revenge and survival. It is personal and their is know other course one cannot exist with out the the other. It is a kingdom or nothing. Their enemies won't settle for anything less than Their lives, so these two sets of people have a total commitment, with a driven purpose.

#6 Rhaegarsjoy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:51 PM

I will for some time at least reclaim Kings Landing and the Iron throne,But the problem is all the people that actively participated in her family's demise are dead and any revenge she will have will be on the wrong people.

Everyone who was in RR is dead except Stannis and I don't think she's gonna march all those orphans (SR the stark kids) to the chopping block. She still calls ned and others the 'usurpers dogs' but she also told Selmy to tell her the truth when she's ready to hear it which makes me think she doesn't want revenge so much anymore she had a chance to go to westeros when they were weak to make them pay and she didnt.

#7 Morienthar

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:31 AM

Everyone who was in RR is dead except Stannis and I don't think she's gonna march all those orphans (SR the stark kids) to the chopping block. She still calls ned and others the 'usurpers dogs' but she also told Selmy to tell her the truth when she's ready to hear it which makes me think she doesn't want revenge so much anymore she had a chance to go to westeros when they were weak to make them pay and she didnt.

If she came to westeros with the three dragons when the Quartheen guy asked her to the Dragons would have run loose,Killed half her army themselves and she would have been crushed and put to death,It was one the things she did right,Though unknowingly.

Edited by Morienthar, 08 July 2013 - 12:31 AM.


#8 Rhaegarsjoy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:52 AM

If she came to westeros with the three dragons when the Quartheen guy asked her to the Dragons would have run loose,

I don't get what you mean what did the quartheen guy do?

#9 Nictarion

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:59 AM

Dany's family deserved to be removed.

Nope. Aerys, deserved to be removed. The rest of the Targs were just as innocent as the Starks, and did not deserve what happened to them.

#10 Addam of Hull

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:01 AM

I wouldn't say either of them are inherently entitled, but there is a key difference between the two families that, I suspect, will play a large role in who manages to successfully reclaim their homes: support. Westeros is a place where families can trace their lineage and heritage back thousands of years. The Starks have the support of a number of families in their lands and that's why they will manage to undergo a restoration - because people want them to. By and large, the Targaryens don't have any lasting support within the Seven Kingdoms... save for the Dornish. They never really married into other families or other families in to theirs. For the sake of their blood line, for certain, but it means that by and large, no noble families have any reason to support them. In that regard, it was only part of the grave they dug themselves.

#11 AegonTargaryen

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:11 AM

Nope. Aerys, deserved to be removed. The rest of the Targs were just as innocent as the Starks, and did not deserve what happened to them.


This is my general opinion as well. I think when Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon and called for Robert and Ned's heads, the lords paramount were justified in rebelling. There are implicit terms in a "contract" between a liege lord and his banners, and Aerys broke that "contract."

What was entirely unjustified is murdering two innocent children in the most heinous manner conceivable. Gregor smashed the boy's head against a wall and raped Elia for fuck sake. Rhaenys was dragged and stabbed over and over again. King Bob didn't do anything about this, and Gregor and Tywin went unpunished.

The Targaryens were usurped, like it or not.I think Dany is perfectly justified in trying to avenge that.

And the whole idea that the Targaryens, as a dynasty, deserved to be removed is unfounded in my opinion. They had bad kings but they also had great ones. Removing Aerys was justified. But the lords of Westeros swore an oath the the Targaryen kings and their heirs. Smashing the infant king, Aegon VI's head against a wall, and raping his mother is entirely unjustified.

#12 Rhaegarsjoy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:13 AM

I wouldn't say either of them are inherently entitled, but there is a key difference between the two families that, I suspect, will play a large role in who manages to successfully reclaim their homes: support. Westeros is a place where families can trace their lineage and heritage back thousands of years. The Starks have the support of a number of families in their lands and that's why they will manage to undergo a restoration - because people want them to. By and large, the Targaryens don't have any lasting support within the Seven Kingdoms... save for the Dornish. They never really married into other families or other families in to theirs. For the sake of their blood line, for certain, but it means that by and large, no noble families have any reason to support them. In that regard, it was only part of the grave they dug themselves.

That is true in a way but I don't now if its accurate to say they have no support from other families we don't have their POV. Its only been 16-17 years since RR so many involved in it are alive so just because they bend the knee to save themselves does that mean they wouldn't support the Targaryens again. Who was that family that still had the Targ banners around? Who knows there might be others.

#13 Barty

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:27 AM

I love both the Starks and Dany but why is it ok for the Starks to get revenge and rebuild their home and not Dany? They both had their families brutally murdered and I don't think anyone can blame Dany for her father's crimes. The Starks were declared traitors, their home taken and they're pretty much on the run or hiding just like Dany has been for her whole life. So do they both deserve to get their homes back? OR Is one entitled but not the other?

And please no she's insane and deserves to die or go wherever crazy ppl go because there are 6799 threads for that. TY

Simple answer - the Targs as a family deserved to be removed from power, the Starks didn't.

#14 The Dovakhiin

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:39 AM

The difference for me is that the Stark kids have lived in Winterfell and now what they lost and why, their lives have changed and their people want them back. Dany has never known a different life, She doesn't know what home looks like, She doesn't know why she lost that home. She feels entitled to a life she never lived. Plus she is an uneducated child with too much power to control with little understanding of the land she claims her birthright.

If the Starks return they do so with an overwhelming majority of their vassals approval, rescuing their homes from the clutches of Ramsay Snow.
If Dany returns she brings death, war and incompetence.

#15 Morienthar

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:10 AM

I don't get what you mean what did the quartheen guy do?

He was ready to give her ships if she would go back.


The Targaryens were usurped, like it or not.I think Dany is perfectly justified in trying to avenge that.

If you argue they were Usurped I could argue they were the usurpers first.
They lost the throne exactly the way they had won it conquest.

#16 Master Forel's Fro

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:16 AM

This is my general opinion as well. I think when Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon and called for Robert and Ned's heads, the lords paramount were justified in rebelling. There are implicit terms in a "contract" between a liege lord and his banners, and Aerys broke that "contract."

What was entirely unjustified is murdering two innocent children in the most heinous manner conceivable. Gregor smashed the boy's head against a wall and raped Elia for fuck sake. Rhaenys was dragged and stabbed over and over again. King Bob didn't do anything about this, and Gregor and Tywin went unpunished.

The Targaryens were usurped, like it or not.I think Dany is perfectly justified in trying to avenge that.

And the whole idea that the Targaryens, as a dynasty, deserved to be removed is unfounded in my opinion. They had bad kings but they also had great ones. Removing Aerys was justified. But the lords of Westeros swore an oath the the Targaryen kings and their heirs. Smashing the infant king, Aegon VI's head against a wall, and raping his mother is entirely unjustified.

/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

#17 tydides

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:27 AM

The Starks were brutally betrayed at the Red Wedding. Similarly, The Targaryens were also betrayed at the sacking of KL. However the distinction between these two events is that the Targaryens started a war because they believed they were infallible (the whole "fire is our champion" thing stinks of this, as does demanding eddard/robert's execution) The Starks were taken out while they were trying to fight a war to free themselves from the Lannisters, which, in their cold views on duty and justice, is justifiable. I guess what I am getting at is that the Starks try to justify their actions, while the Targaryens believe all they need to do is shout "fire and blood". Because of this, I think that they sort of deserved what was coming to them. The sacking of KL was terrible, but the Targaryens also shouldn't have the right to rule after so many stupid decisions. However, I am actually going to agree with you. Dany deserves a home, but maybe not (at least in my mind) a queenship.

#18 Nictarion

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:37 AM

If you argue they were Usurped I could argue they were the usurpers first.
They lost the throne exactly the way they had won it conquest.

There was no IT before the Targaryens.

#19 Barty

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:54 AM

There was no IT before the Targaryens.

They usurped other Kings - IIRC Aegon destroyed the lines of the Gardener Kings(a line of Kings much older than Valyria) and Harren the Black

#20 Nyrhex

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:12 AM

Most of the Northerners want the Starks back, as they find the Boltons to be an arbitrary liege placed upon them (murdered thier declared king and most of thier men), and refuse to give him legitimacy.

Most of Westeros deposed Danny's family, and follow a Baratheon, of sorts, as they found the Targaryens to be an arbitrary liege placed upon them (dragons), and refused to give them legitimacy.

Seems simple enough to grasp.

Edited by Nyrhex, 08 July 2013 - 03:13 AM.