Toxspecific Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Why is it wrong to use magic in warfare?Because Stannis did it. Seriously though, its for the same means; how is killing your brother with a much larger army more honourable than killing him with magic?And we don't paint Stannis as perfect, we just defend him against criticisms which are beyond ridiculous and illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwienerdog Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Stannis May not want the IT but he does crave the power it will give him.Stannis not being a true religious zealot sure uses Mel's power to further his own. Is this being hypocritical? Many readers think so. I think of him as a Machiavellian type of man who will use anything to further his cause. GRRM calls Stannis a righteous man inspite of this attitude. The trouble with not being a true believer but still using a religion for it power will I think be Stannis undoing. He might not care if you don't believe but you better not speak out against Red R'hlor unless you like barbeque with you as the main dish. Here's to hoping Stannis kicks butt on Bolton and Frey. I fear for him if he goes south though. Massey had better come through with his Sellsword and Sails. I just read the summary of Dangerous Women that describes the 1st Dance of Dragons and according to it Stannis May have a chance with his Targ blood to be a Dragon rider. Now that would make thing real interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxspecific Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Stannis uses the red faith he doesn't worship it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwienerdog Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 That's what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Witch King of Braavos Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 You know what. These past few weeks got me thinking about Stannis. Especially with GRRM confirming that Stannis was righteous and whatnot, I can't help but feel that I should list Stannis as the greatest hero alive in ASOIAF right now.Hope he takes the throne from Tommen and defeats the the Targs.All hail the rightful king. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Also Stannis had no direct oaths of fealty to Aerys. As a landless second son defying Aerys was treason, but not oathbreaking.Whereas Renly would have sworn oaths to his brother Robert and by rebelling against both Joffrey and Stannis he broke them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Renly operating under the assumption that Joff was Robert's son? This is not to say that he wouldn't have rebelled if Cersei's children's bastardy had come out earlier. But seeing that Renly thought he was rebelling against Joff, how does his brother's claim even come into picture? As far as he was concerned, Stannis was rebelling against Joffrey same as him but went the extra mile to name Joff a bastard. Stannis knew the truth of it. Renly didn't. This is why I can't really consider Renly a traitor to Stannis.You're not wrong, I argued much the same point earlier. The thing is, whether Renly thought he was rebelling against Joffrey or Stannis doesn't really matter all that much, he was rebelling all the same, and he knew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzywa Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Hey guys, just joined the forum. and of course a huge fan of the series. Also being a Stan a man I find it amusing that some would consider Renly a better king, a great guy sure but a king? And yeah he did know Joff was not legit, Ned told him so. So a willing kinslayer even before an usurper traitor He craved the throne and power and wherever the knight of flowers could not find a hole Jamie could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Nightstalker Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Also Stannis had no direct oaths of fealty to Aerys. As a landless second son defying Aerys was treason, but not oathbreaking.Whereas Renly would have sworn oaths to his brother Robert and by rebelling against both Joffrey and Stannis he broke them.True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Melli Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 If Tyrion kills his father everything is fine.But if Stannis kills his brother everyone blames him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pootie Tang Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 If Tyrion kills his father everything is fine.But if Stannis kills his brother everyone blames him.Tyrion is actually more criticized on this forum then Stannis I have found. Rest assured, Tyrion is not without his fair share of critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Melli Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Tyrion is actually more criticized on this forum then Stannis I have found. Rest assured, Tyrion is not without his fair share of critics.Only things is Stannis haters are extremely loud. A couple days ago there was a thread about Stannis being a bad person because he is a kinslayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 If Tyrion kills his father everything is fine.But if Stannis kills his brother everyone blames him. Tywin was utter scum, a total monster, killing him was a service to humanity. Renly was hardly a saint, but not even in the same league in regards of morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Dragone Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 If Tyrion kills his father everything is fine.But if Stannis kills his brother everyone blames him.Well, Tywin had it coming, everyone hates him. Renly was cool.Also, Tyrion is not as badass as Stannis and not even remotely as funny, so he doesn't have that many vocal fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pootie Tang Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Only things is Stannis haters are extremely loud. A couple days ago there was a thread about Stannis being a bad person because he is a kinslayer.You do know that Stannis has the loudest and most avid followers on this forum. There is even a name for them: Stanstans.For further reference I advice you to check out Boardology at http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/78231-boardology/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxwell Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 You do know that Stannis has the loudest and most avid followers on this forum. There is even a name for them: Stanstans.There is a reason for this, it's not just random. Stannis is the best character in the series overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 You do know that Stannis has the loudest and most avid followers on this forum. There is even a name for them: Stanstans.For further reference I advice you to check out Boardology at http://asoiaf.wester...231-boardology/No. That's Cersei who has the loudest advocates.Only a small minority of people like her, yet it feels as though she is more defended than hated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I think he's driven heavily by family issues. He did his duty as a brother to Robert and most certainly ate a lot of crap from him over the years. So Renly's betrayal was especially galling. It kind of hit all the worst places in Stannis. He hates those who forsake their duty, it was a duty (to the elder brother) that he kept faith with even as he hated much that Robert did and said, and it was a personal betrayal as well by his own brother.He's very interesting in that he's one of the few characters that can still become a hero or "break bad." He literally has the angel and devil on his shoulders in Davos and Mel. Mel literally wears red, hahah.I used to think he was kind of a whiner, in how he was written in the past. The TWOW spoiler did convince me that this is one of the few people around qualified for the IT job. And of course the decision to go to the Wall. I guess I'm officially on the Stan bandwagon now. I do fear what he'll do to some characters I like though if he wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I'm feeling a little frustrated right now - one of the DVD extras for the GOT show provides a possible reason for why Stannis picked Robert over Aerys - "It was the hardest choice I've ever made: my brother or my King. Blood or Honor. Aerys ruled by right of all the laws in Westeros,everyone knew the price of defiance. But there are deeper, older laws: the younger brother bows before the elder. I followed Robert." This absolves Stannis of claims of being a hypocrite - he followed the law of blood and supported his brother for the throne. This explains why he was so furious with Renly - Renly had ignored both honor and blood, supporting himself for the Kingship against all the laws Stannis knows, and further mitigates Stannis indirectly killing Renly. But this reasoning is given in the show, not the books, so it's not canon. Even so, it makes perfect sense as to how Stannis approached first rebelling against Aerys and later his anger at Renly's betrayal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Also Stannis had no direct oaths of fealty to Aerys. As a landless second son defying Aerys was treason, but not oathbreaking.Whereas Renly would have sworn oaths to his brother Robert and by rebelling against both Joffrey and Stannis he broke them.Renly actually had reason to rebel against Joffery no? Slaughtering the Hand of the King, Regent, Lord of Winterfell along with his entire household surely counts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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