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  1. actually it describes the sailed ships as carracks and cogs which is the same as the ships he describes in the lannister fleet showing clearly that GRRM does consider these types of ships to be warships. I will give you the quotes: from ACOK Fury herself would center the first line of battle, flanked by the Lord Steffon and the Stag of the Sea, each of two hundred oars. On the port and starboard wings were the hundreds: Lady Harra, Brightfish, Laughing Lord, Sea Demon, Horned Honor, Ragged Jenna, Trident Three, Swift Sword, Princess Rhaenys, Dog's Nose, Sceptre, Faithful, Red Raven, Queen Alysanne, Cat, Courageous, and Dragonsbane. From every stern streamed the fiery heart of the Lord of Light, red and yellow and orange. Behind Davos and his sons came another line of hundreds commanded by knights and lordly captains, and then the smaller, slower Myrish contingent, none dipping more than eighty oars. Farther back would come the sailed ships, carracks and lumbering great cogs, and last of all Salladhor Saan in his proud Valyrian, a towering three-hundred, paced by the rest of his galleys with their distinctive striped hulls. from the SSM For what it's worth, however, their ships would be larger and more formidable than the longships of the ironmen -- cogs, carracks, and war galleys of various sides, up to the great dromonds with scorpions and catapults on deck. But i leave it up to you to decide if you want to change it to sailed warships or just leave it as sailed ships. Thanks for the change you already made.
  2. Whel its the wording really, it suggests that these sailed ships are not warships so simply changing sailed ships to sailed warships and adding a link in the references to the so spake martin about these ships being warships should do. the link to the articell: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1049 unfortunatly we don't know if they belonged to the Royal Fleet or to the Narrow Sea Lords probably a bit of both so the part saying there are 51 royal war galleys and 9 from the Lords of the Narrow sea should really be 60 war galleys ommithing the Royal part since that is not certain and a lot more of these galleys could be from the Narrow Sea Lords.
  3. There is in the articel about the battle of the Blackwater something that bothers me, in the box that describes the strengths is a breakdown of stannis his fleet: Fleet: ~200 ships:[N 2] ~51 royal war galleys[N 3] ~9 war galleys from the lords of the Narrow Sea[N 4] Myrish sellsails[2][N 5] sailed ships, carracks and lumbering great cogs[3] 25 Lysene pirate galleys[N 6] This breakdown seems to asume that the sailed ships are not warships and not part of the royal fleet or the ships that are provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea. However GRRM does seem to consider these types of ships to be warships as evidenced by this articel from the "So spake Martin" archive: The Lannister Fleet Submitted By: Kay-Arne Hansen Mr. Martin, we found it peculiar that Tyrion considered the importance of the Greyjoy fleet in aCoK (when Balon's message reached him in KL), since he never thinks about the West's own naval strength and it's usefulness against the Starks. So we began to doubt said strength. Did Tywin ever rebuild the Lannister fleet, after Euron burned it eight years ago? And if he rebuilt it, did he ever appoint a permanent commander of this fleet? Yes, Lord Tywin certainly replaced the ships that were lost. However, as far as naval power goes, the only fleets comparable to that of the Greyjoys are the royal fleet (most of it destroyed on the Blackwater) and the Redwyne fleet, based on the Arbor. Besides the king, the Greyjoys and Redwynes are the traditional sea powers of Westeros. The lords whose lands abut the coast of the Sunset Sea all keep a war galley or three about for coastal defense, and of course those shores are home to scads of fishing boats as well. The Lannisters have a larger and much grander fleet, but we're still only talking about twenty to thirty ships, perhaps. To fight a major battle, they would call the ships of their various bannermen, just as Stannis summoned the lords of the narrow sea for the battle on the Blackwater. For what it's worth, however, their ships would be larger and more formidable than the longships of the ironmen -- cogs, carracks, and war galleys of various sides, up to the great dromonds with scorpions and catapults on deck. The Tyrells are in more or less the same position as the Lannisters, though they depend even more on their bannermen, especially the lords of the Shield Islands off the mouth of the Mander. The Hightowers have only a few warships, but control Oldtown, home to numerous trading vessels. Submitted by Kay-Arne Hansen September 24, 1999 Since this is in 1999 and clash of kings was publiced in 1998 i do think this info aplies to stannis his fleet aswell, and that means the sailed ships are warships, which would greatly increase the number of ships provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea. I personnaly think the breakdown should reflect this information and if you guys agree i would like to ask someone with acces to change they info or ad at least a reference to this info so people know of this possibility.
  4. The map unfortunatly is not completly correct it also shows no forests around Norvos while we actually know from aWoIaF that there are many forests around it of pine, oak and beech. As to the naval power they do not have a 1000 ships a single citie can not possibly maintain that many on a permanent basis. That is why they have the arsenal, it being able to build a ship a day is so they can in times of war quikly enlarge there fleet. There standard peacetime fleet is probably no bigger then one or two hundred.
  5. The most logical answer i can think of is that the house redwyne whas not as powerfull during the dance as they are in current times.
  6. wel they important part of Nan telling the story is that Lyanna knows this actually happened and is not just a story/fairy tale, so in that regard i do not think that diminishes her role. I like they idea that she did influence other Stark children and Benjen certainly seems an obvieus candidate for this, so i join you in hoping we will see Benjen again.
  7. Not my intension, apologies if it felt that way.
  8. Yes the tread should move on to discusing how they get to the North and how her becoming Old Nan would work and what it ads to the story and narrative. If you where not butt-hurt then why did you feel the need to insult me? I also never said it was they only possibilty, it was they answer to my questions that i myself came up with, there could be other answers that are equally good i just did not see them yet. But lets please move on from this. I rather like this idea Harrenhal is not that far from where Whitewalls use to be and there is if i remember correctly still a village called whitewalls, so knowing Nan's story she might have passed the village and remembered the story. This could have contributed to her desicion on leaving with Rhaegar.
  9. Yes we where over this point already as you can clearly see from my comment on the top of page 6 in this tread. I brought it up later as an example for an totaly different purpose not to actually argue that it was needed for the theory. So this is a pretty useless post by you to be honest
  10. No i did not have they answers at first and honestly i came to them because of things you and others said, this is the reason i wanted to see if you would come to the same conclusion. I certainly do not feel high and mighty if i did i would not be discusing with you i would make statements and leave, wich quite obvieus i did not. So i do think your comment is an un-called for attack on my person, just because i type a post in haste (do to being busy with work) does not mean you can make rude and insulting comment like you must be drunk. I do not get your butt-hurt in this because when you started this tread i was not convinced at all, and was comments from people like you that answering my question that slowly gave me the mental picture of how it could work, you should be proud of how convincing you can be. That i witheld they answers i came up with for a while to see if you would come up with the same conclusion as i did was because i actually came to those answers because of things you posted, but then seemed to ignore again in favor of the its fantasy explanation. That just stumped me thats all. I do hope they rather insulting atitude you are showing as of late (and not just to me) is just a temporary thing because it does not help to create a healthy discussion.
  11. The point whas that for a while our OP did not believe this was true, if you had actually read al my post on this tread you would know that we already diterment that in the case of this theory there was no need for a formal annulment. I only brought it up again in relation to him saying he went by wat the books say and it was they example of him not doing that, that was closest at hand. I will quote the post you seem to have missed. @Macgregor of the North Still swamped with work (I should actually be workin right now) so i am going to stop playing the devils advocate, the truth is i have come up with an answer to my own questions quite a while back. But desided to hold off on telling you to see if you would come up with the same answers. To the question on why she would go to Dunk and Egg instead of Bloodraven who makes more sence: What if she did go to Bloodraven but he turned her down because he had already desided Ambrose could keep her. Now already having run away from Ambrose and fearfull on what he might do if she returns (no beter target for a cowards anger then a young girl after al) she having heard about the Targaryen prince and the knight that he travels with (to many people have seen Egg for that story to not have made the rounds) she turns to Dunk and Egg. Now this is a plausible reason for her to turn to them as i was asking you to provide. As to the question on why she would give up her life as a noble woman: In they above senario she did not originally plan to, she would have asked Bloodraven for asylum at court. That not being a possibility anymore she trows in her lot with Dunk and Egg, perhaps quitly hoping that Egg as prince will take her to court wich then does not happen because they are not going to court for the next few years. The reason i did not tell you this before is because i was hoping you would see past the its fantasy explanation and come up with these answers yourself. I have to get back to work, but wen i can i shall check in to see the progress on the discussion of this theory.
  12. I disagree that for a formal anulment you do not need the faith since GRRM has already had two caracters in the books confirm this ignoring this is not going to make the fact that i am right on this go away. If you really as you claim go by what the books show us then you should stop claiming the faith is not needed for anulment since GRRM has been very clear on this matter. As to the girl knowing about ashford, you mean the uncle franklyn who failed to recognise Dunk troughout the whole novella. Not a convincing argument at al. Had he recognised him the people would have constantly asked him about Ashford and nobody did. You really have not ansered my question at all, you just gave some speculation that does not convincinly show that she knows who Dunk is or that he might be willing to help her. A bigger problem still is the fact that you consistently ignore the fact that Bloodraven is in a much better position to help her and that logic (something GRRM is very big on) dictates she go to him not Dunk. You can disagree with me on you relying to much on the fantasy side but that does not make it any less true, so i think i have touched on a home truth about you her aswell hence your sudden coldnes in your respons to my post. Personnaly i do not think you want to let go of they idea she could be Nan and i am fine with that, but do not expect me to see this theory as plausible until you can finally answer my question with more then speculation. Perhaps in this case we are going to have to agree to disagree, but i am open to hearing more about this theory, hell if it did not interest me i would not have responded to it in the first place. I commend you on how many of the problems this theory set out with you have solved but i really do think you have some more work to do to really make it convincing. PS. I am swamped in work at the moment and may by the looks of things not be home in the next few days (the unfortunate part of being a troubleshooter for your employer ) so if you respond to this post do not be suprised if my respons back will be a few days coming.
  13. I do remember but you are confusing me with Lord Varys and Free Northman Reborn here . We actually like we always do gradually gravitated towards each other to come to a concensus. Actually you did, from your OP: You most definetly mentioned annulment you just used a different word for it. I also originaly argued that for that to happen you needed the faith wich is still true, but we have moved on from that because an other poster gave evidence of married people living apart from each other. I do not mind but must also conclude that you often go in the opposite direction and rely to much on "Its fantasy anything can happen" wich with the amount of realism that GRRM treis to put into his story's simply can not be releid up on as a argument. His caracters think like real people, that is his signature mark and he has exprest pride in that himself, so we have to asume that this girl does to and as such for this to be a viable theory you still have to answer the question why go to Dunk and Egg and not Bloodraven who makes more sence in the situation she is in.
  14. Oh i do see what you are trying to get across and really i think whe are past the point of arguing wheter ore not she would stay with Ambrose, i am on board with living apart but not full annulment thing. In my last post what i put up as an isseu is why she would go to Dunk and Egg for help instead of Bloodraven. This then is the question the theory needs to answer in order to promote itself from "higly unlikely" to "its a possibility" A girl craving adventure would also consider going to court an adventure, and in this scenario she would not have to give up the luxuries of her noble life. Because lets face it she was enjoying being in the spotlight during her wedding and she has more change of more of that at court. So again i put the question to you why would she go to Dunk and Egg who she knows nothing about and can not be sure of will help her? Instead of going to Bloodraven who she knows for a fact can help her. As to her hearing about Ashford since Dunk did not use his own coat of arms her making this connection is very unlikely.
  15. @Macgregor of the North Basically what i am asking off you is give me a compeling reason why she would take the awfully big leap of faith that Dunk and Egg would be willing to help her. And please don't come with Ambrose is old and done because hanging around old and done untill a beter opurtunity comes along is beter then complete uncertainty. If you can do this then i am willing to for the sake of argument let go of my other problem with the theory, namely why in the name of the seven would she want to give up her life as a noble lady and become a servant.