A Theory about the Sansa Unkiss

[Ziriath]

I think it was just a bug. Maybe GRRM wrote a variant, where Unkiss actually happened, and did not use it. Sometimes it must be quite hard to keep track of everything what is in previous books and to not make an inconsistence like this..

[The Abominable SnowOther]

Here is a theory about the Sansa Unkiss that I have not seen before. I believe that this theory is about as plausible as the Frey Pies theory, which I think is a high bar.

Ok, so GRRM has stated that the Sansa Unkiss means that she is not a reliable narrator. What are we supposed to take away from that? There are two natural natural inferences that I would make:

1. There are some parts of Sansa chapters are are simply false and did not happen the way she says they happened.

2. In particular, Sansa has difficulty accurately remembering (or perceiving) when men men kiss her.

Ok, so if we accept these two inferences, where does that lead us? That when Littlefinger "kissed" Sansa at the Eyrie, he actually did not kiss her, she kissed him.

Afterwards, GRRM uses about a page or two of text of having Lysa accuse Sansa of kissing Littlefinger, how Lysa saw Sansa kissing Littlefinger, how it doesn't make any sense that Littlefinger kissed Sansa, etc.

Upon first reading, we assume that Sansa correct and that Lysa is incorrect, because Lysa is the crazy one. But in light of the Sansa Unkiss and what GRRM has said about it, I'm pretty sure that it happened how Lysa said that it did. It puts the incident into an entirely different light and makes us reflect that Sansa is just some teenage girl that's easily confused, which is how GRRM wants to portray her.

Op you have blown my mind

i dont think i agree with you but thanks, nonetheless. Simply, this never even crossed my mind

i think that was just a troll. He always says unreliable narrator "this" unreliable narrator "that"

[Livus]

I'm really surprised that some people here think a narrator can't be unreliable about things that are happening "im front of us".

"I told you that nothing could please me more than to help you with your castle. I fear that was a lie as well. Something else would please me more." He stepped closer. "This."

Sansa tried to step back, but he pulled her into his arms and suddenly he was kissing her. Feebly, she tried to squirm, but only succeeded in pressing herself more tightly against him. His mouth was on hers, swallowing her words. He tasted of mint. For half a heartbeat she yielded to his kiss . . . before she turned her face away and wrenched free. "What are you doing?"

Let me re-write that for you:

"I told you that nothing could please me more than to help you with your castle. I fear that was a lie as well. Something else would please me more." He stepped closer. "This."

Sansa tried to step back, but he pulled her into his arms and suddenly she was kissing him. Part of her wanted to squirm, but found herself pressing herself more tightly against him. Her mouth was on his, swallowing her words. He tasted of mint. For half a heartbeat he yielded to her kiss . . . then she turned her face away and he wrenched free. "What are you doing?"


I don't have a horse in this race either way, but narrative POV is just that - POV.

[LordStoneheart]

I'm really surprised that some people here think a narrator can't be unreliable about things that are happening "im front of us".

We have no reason to suspect otherwise since GRRM only clarified that Sansa's memory was at fault when he mentioned the unreliability. The only time I think we can say our narration of what's in front of us is unreliable is Catelyn at the RW, but this is a very special circumstance, and Dany in the Dothraki Sea, another special circumstance. These are exceptions, not rules. Otherwise we get very straightforward narration from all the characters, including Sansa.

[Blazfemur]

i still cant believe this thread has 1846 views and now, 64 replies. seriously?

let's harp on a fact that has absolutely nothing to do with the story or plotline. it really doesnt matter in the slightest, sansa's recollection of what may or may not have happened at blackwater.

petyr's kiss happened, it's over, it happened and lysa is now dead. end of story. close this thread.

[Blazfemur]

unreliable narrator... pfft. by the tits of r'hllor, get over it.

[Booknerd2]

The unkiss just shows that she is capable of having subconscious feelings for him. It is possibly the planting of a very small seed. That despite his godawful acting out, foul language, and sometimes corny, inappropriate words to her, and acting a fool in front of her, that the thought has actually and truly crossed her mind that she might have kissed him and it was not the worst or most disgusting event on earth to her. He was drunk a lot before he talked to her like he was nervous or uncomfortable, and then you remember all he has seen and done, and what a fearless, tough, bad ass he is, and then you know Sansa, and it is friggin' hilarious. Which who would have thought, considering her almost every reaction to him right up until the touching his cheek thing?

Now if she remembered the "kiss", shook her head, said "Ew, god no," and shivered in cringeworthiness, and moved on to the next thought, then there would be no discussion and the unkiss would have been nothing. But that is NOT the reaction she gave.

It is not big, but then again it is.

[Blazfemur]

The unkiss just shows that she is capable of having subconscious feelings for him. It is possibly the planting of a very small seed. That despite his godawful acting out, foul language, and sometimes corny, inappropriate words to her, and acting a fool in front of her, that the thought has actually and truly crossed her mind that she might have kissed him and it was not the worst or most disgusting event on earth to her. He was drunk a lot before he talked to her like he was nervous or uncomfortable, and then you remember all he has seen and done, and what a fearless, tough, bad ass he is, and then you know Sansa, and it is friggin' hilarious. Which who would have thought, considering her almost every reaction to him right up until the touching his cheek thing?

Now if she remembered the "kiss", shook her head, said "Ew, god no," and shivered in cringeworthiness, and moved on to the next thought, then there would be no discussion and the unkiss would have been nothing. But that is NOT the reaction she gave.

It is not big, but then again it is.

Nothing would please me more than to see sansa and sandor rule winterfell, since there wont be a kings landing. The building blocks for the two of them are there -- it's set up perfectly.

Should he though? He's finally found an outlet away from the vipers pit that is kings landing, repenting for his sins. why would he dive headfirst into that mess again?

[Booknerd2]

Nothing would please me more than to see sansa and sandor rule winterfell, since there wont be a kings landing. The building blocks for the two of them are there -- it's set up perfectly.

Should he though? He's finally found an outlet away from the vipers pit that is kings landing, repenting for his sins. why would he dive headfirst into that mess again?

He wouldn't be able to help it if that was the case. I don't think he is leaving Sansa's side again…EVER…if they meet up again. I still think it was obvious that yes, he needed, money, necessities, a place, and maybe more when he offered to serve Robb Stark, but not for a minute did I think he didn't think of it and attempt it in order to "get in the good graces of the Stark family" and to help get Sansa back. He was just as lost and down as Arya after the Red Wedding.

But remember….Dad's dead, Gregor is well….he has to deal with Clegane lands too possibly. He is the only one left if he can get them back and it works out that way. Not now, because there are bigger problems going on and the Others are coming. And he would have to get off the Island and do a bunch of other stuff first. Plus people will look for him once they realize he isn't dead, if he does get off of QI. Or is discovered somehow.

[Lady Flandrensis]

The situation of the UnKiss was pretty different from Littlefinger's kiss. First of all, on the night of the Blackwater, Sandor was in a very physically and sexually dominant position. It was highly emotional, Sansa was terrified, and she thought he would kiss her. She was actually surprised when he didn't. Considering the building tension between the two during ACOK, I was a bit surprised that he pulled away, too. After a night that was so highly emotionally stressful and more than a little traumatizing, it makes perfect sense that Sansa misremembers the actual events.

The situation with Littlefinger is different. We all know about his general creepiness. We spotted it in the very first interaction between he and Sansa in AGOT. He comments about her "sweet body" to Tyrion and even offers to marry her. We know he wants her, and not just from her pov. Also, we're seeing the LF kiss happening in real time. It's kind of impossible for Sansa to misremember something that is happening to her immediately. If in this case Sansa was the initiator of the kiss and she thinks about how he's pulling her toward him and how she's struggling to get away, we have to question her sanity, not her very human memory.

Yes! This! Sansa is a creature of emotion, and is easily confused, but the two situations speak for themselves.

[Blazfemur]

He wouldn't be able to help it if that was the case. I don't think he is leaving Sansa's side again…EVER…if they meet up again. I still think it was obvious that yes, he needed, money, necessities, a place, and maybe more when he offered to serve Robb Stark, but not for a minute did I think he didn't think of it and attempt it in order to "get in the good graces of the Stark family" and to help get Sansa back. He was just as lost and down as Arya after the Red Wedding.

But remember….Dad's dead, Gregor is well….he has to deal with Clegane lands too possibly. He is the only one left if he can get them back and it works out that way. Not now, because there are bigger problems going on and the Others are coming. And he would have to get off the Island and do a bunch of other stuff first. Plus people will look for him once they realize he isn't dead, if he does get off of QI. Or is discovered somehow.

But he is dead, iirc. "The Hound" attacked Brienne, and was stabbed through the throat with a spear. The Hound died, in every sense of the word. And Elder Brother is stoic that he buried the original hound as well, so he's got a way out. Why go back? Baelish is doing nothing but helping Sansa come to power in a total non-lannister fashion, i'd assume Sandor would be ok with that, not because he trusts baelish, but because he hates the lannisters.

[Blazfemur]

What could possibly pull him out of the quiet isle? repent, Sandor. be at rest. be lumberjack series finale dexter.

[BitsOfBrains]

Wasn't Sansa drunk when the hound came to her room?

I misremember my own drunken sexcapades when I was a kid. Usually its me forgetting something that happened, but sometimes the other way around.

[Annara Snow]

Here is a theory about the Sansa Unkiss that I have not seen before. I believe that this theory is about as plausible as the Frey Pies theory, which I think is a high bar.

Ok, so GRRM has stated that the Sansa Unkiss means that she is not a reliable narrator. What are we supposed to take away from that? There are two natural natural inferences that I would make:

1. There are some parts of Sansa chapters are are simply false and did not happen the way she says they happened.

2. In particular, Sansa has difficulty accurately remembering (or perceiving) when men men kiss her.

Ok, so if we accept these two inferences, where does that lead us? That when Littlefinger "kissed" Sansa at the Eyrie, he actually did not kiss her, she kissed him.

Afterwards, GRRM uses about a page or two of text of having Lysa accuse Sansa of kissing Littlefinger, how Lysa saw Sansa kissing Littlefinger, how it doesn't make any sense that Littlefinger kissed Sansa, etc.

Upon first reading, we assume that Sansa correct and that Lysa is incorrect, because Lysa is the crazy one. But in light of the Sansa Unkiss and what GRRM has said about it, I'm pretty sure that it happened how Lysa said that it did. It puts the incident into an entirely different light and makes us reflect that Sansa is just some teenage girl that's easily confused, which is how GRRM wants to portray her.

You're right. Also, since Sansa is an unreliable narrator, we should assume that she helf a knife to Sandor's throat rather than the other way round, another instance of her unreliability. Sansa also almost raped Tyrion on their wedding night and only decided not to go through with it at the last moment. Joffrey wasn't the one ordering her beatings, Sansa was the one beating up poor Joffrey, and she also liked to beat Meryn Trent. And don't get me started on that time she tried to rape Marillion - fortunately, Lothor Brune was there to save him.

[Blazfemur]

You're right. Also, since Sansa is an unreliable narrator, we should assume that she helf a knife to Sandor's throat rather than the other way round, another instance of her unreliability. Sansa also almost raped Tyrion on their wedding night and only decided not to go through with it at the last moment. Joffrey wasn't the one ordering her beatings, Sansa was the one beating up poor Joffrey, and she also liked to beat Meryn Trent. And don't get me started on that time she tried to rape Marillion - fortunately, Lothor Brune was there to save him.

Lothor Brune lmao, is about as legendary as the other sword saint, Boros Blount.

Lothor Brune for the iron throne!

[Rooseman]

Wasn't Sansa drunk when the hound came to her room?

I misremember my own drunken sexcapades when I was a kid. Usually its me forgetting something that happened, but sometimes the other way around.

When he grabbed her, her initial reaction was "He's going in for a kiss."

She just forgot that it didn't play out the way she expected. When she replayed it in her head again, the vivid picture of her expectation had taken the place of what actually happened.

That's not an uncommon thing. I'm certain that a lot of my memories actually happened differently. It happens when your memory is vague, but in order to replay it in your head, you'll have to fill the blanks somehow. To stay with the theme of the board, for example when I try to find a quote from the books. I have a clear picture of how I think a dialogue went down, yet when (or if...) I actually find the passage, the phrases are often quite different from what I thought they were.

[FittleLinger]

When he grabbed her, her initial reaction was "He's going in for a kiss."

She just forgot that it didn't play out the way she expected. When she replayed it in her head again, the vivid picture of her expectation had taken the place of what actually happened.

That's not an uncommon thing. I'm certain that a lot of my memories actually happened differently. It happens when your memory is vague, but in order to replay it in your head, you'll have to fill the blanks somehow. To stay with the theme of the board, for example when I try to find a quote from the books. I have a clear picture of how I think a dialogue went down, yet when (or if...) I actually find the passage, the phrases are often quite different from what I thought they were.

Yeah, I do agree with this, but the thing is... Martin's answer "I'll let the readers figure it out by themselves" suggests there is something to figure out - as in it has or will have some future significance. He could've easily said that people misremember stuff and it happens.

[Blazfemur]

*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*

No we ain't got room for boring...

For boring we ain't got no room!

[postholer]

You're right. Also, since Sansa is an unreliable narrator, we should assume that she helf a knife to Sandor's throat rather than the other way round, another instance of her unreliability. Sansa also almost raped Tyrion on their wedding night and only decided not to go through with it at the last moment. Joffrey wasn't the one ordering her beatings, Sansa was the one beating up poor Joffrey, and she also liked to beat Meryn Trent. And don't get me started on that time she tried to rape Marillion - fortunately, Lothor Brune was there to save him.

Laughing my ass off! I'm having images of poor Meryn Trant being brutalized by that lugnut Sansa....too funny!

[Faydra]

In terms of being nuts... Lysa>Sansa. I'll take Sansa's word over Lysa's anytime.