Joffrey was NOT worse than Aerys

[Kaguya]

My point was that given time Joff would be worse then Aerys, how is age irrelevant? He is referred to as the the Boy King yet he is as violent and sadistic as someone twice his age would be. If he got as old as Aerys, he would probably be doing a lot worse then just burning people. Like yeah that sucks but I'd rather be burned then flayed. Or given the Vargo Hoat treatment.

My whole point is, Aerys went mad at a late age, Joff was practically born the way he was. Joff would be remembered way worse then Aerys if he lived out his life in power, if only because he always had and would have done fucked up things all the time and his violent reign would have been longer then the period Aerys went mad

I get the feeling you like Joff lol

Yes i love Joff, he is everything i aspire to be.

[Mad Monkey]

It's the same guy, but with Joffrey killed young ala James Dean or Marylin Monroe in the early romantic phase of bad kingness, where Aerys was the fat bloated Elvis of bad kingery.

Agreed. Most of the arguments can make for Joffrey being better than Aerys hinge on the fact that Aerys had a lot longer to make more mistakes. There's no indication that Joffrey would have been better than Aerys had he lived to adulthood. Indeed, the fact it took Joffrey broke Westeros in half on his very first day as king shows that he might have even been worse than Aerys. Joffrey would have had the loyalty of the North, the Vale, and the Riverlands if only he could find it in himself to be nice to a sweet little girl. He couldn't even manage something that simple.

[Ali Colak]

Did you miss the fact that Aerys had a fetish for watching people burn? That's more than just paranoia.

No I didn't, did you miss the fact that we only see manifestations of that fetish in later life.

In the state of paranoia that he was in, he expressed his power, gained, security in the way that was most meaningful to him.

[Kaguya]

No I didn't, did you miss the fact that we only see manifestations of that fetish in later life.

In the state of paranoia that he was in, he expressed his power, gained, security in the way that was most meaningful to him.

But he didn't burn people because he was paranoid, that might be his justification but he literally was sexually turned on by it.

[HexMachina]

But he didn't burn people because he was paranoid, that might be his justification but he literally was sexually turned on by it.

I dont think he burned people because he was sexually aroused by it. That was an effect the burnings had on him, not a cause. In the two cases we know of, he had reasons (even if they werent justified) for burning them (Chelsted resigned and defied him, Rickard was because he demanded Trial by Combat) and his sexual arousal was merely.a consequence of this

[devilish]

Joffrey was swiftly becoming the new Aerys.

[Kaguya]

I dont think he burned people because he was sexually aroused by it. That was an effect the burnings had on him, not a cause. In the two cases we know of, he had reasons (even if they werent justified) for burning them (Chelsted resigned and defied him, Rickard was because he demanded Trial by Combat) and his sexual arousal was merely.a consequence of this

Maybe maybe not. It's still fucked up.

[StarkTarg]

Aerys developed into a crazy guy, while Joffrey was born crazy and evil. To top it all off, Joffrey was plain stupid.

I wonder how much basilisk Pycelle added to their daily dinner.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

Joffery only was king for what 2 years. Aerys ruled a lot longer. so your reasons make no sense. given time Joffrey would have surpassed Aerys

[Kaguya]

Joffery only was king for what 2 years. Aerys ruled a lot longer. so your reasons make no sense. given time Joffrey would have surpassed Aerys

My reasoning makes more sense than your hypothetical 'what if' statement.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

you seem to keep pointing out that what ifs a lot in support your opinion to Joff. you dont seem to put anything in context.

you are judging Aerys a ruler on the totality of his long reign. with a large body of work crediting him with all his bad deeds.

Judging their kingship in the limited factor of the time they ruled. Joff ruled two years. if you are going to judge them it should be in those two years. Aerys first two years. of course someone with a longer reign could accumulate more bad deeds than someone who had a shortreign.

[Kaguya]

you seem to keep pointing out that what ifs a lot in support your opinion to Joff. you dont seem to put anything in context.

you are judging Aerys a ruler on the totality of his long reign. with a large body of work crediting him with all his bad deeds.

Judging their kingship in the limited factor of the time they ruled. Joff ruled two years. if you are going to judge them it should be in those two years. Aerys first two years. of course someone with a longer reign could accumulate more bad deeds than someone who had a shortreign.

Okay. Joffreys first 2 years vs Aerys final two years. How does that sound?

[Maester_Withoutchains]

uh how about their first two years. since joff only ruled two years. i am not sure if you understand context. you seem to want to hammer Aerys was worse but default due to his long reign vs Joff short reign.

let me clairfy i am not saying either was a better than the other i take the stance that context is what matters.

[Kaguya]

This thread is about who was more vile as a human being and who had the worse atrocities. So logically Aerys later years would be fit for comparison, yes? If you want to get in the context of both their reigns then make a thread about it.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

if you are going by worse atrocities then you would have to strike what Aerys didnt do. you would have to remove his attempted Democide wouldnt you. yes?

[Kaguya]

if you are going by worse atrocities then you would have to strike what Aerys didnt do. you would have to remove his attempted Democide wouldnt you. yes?

Sure. That still leaves what he did to his wife, Brandon and Rickard and his sexual burning fetish.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

and my discussion points are you are judging a 2 year reign to a 20 + year reign. a person that been iinvolved in three murders at the age of twleve /thirteen would seem worse.

[kn1tt3r]

I didn't know this was a "who is worse" contest.

[Kaguya]

and my discussion points are you are judging a 2 year reign to a 20 + year reign. a person that been iinvolved in three murders at the age of twleve /thirteen would seem worse.

A person can personally murder people for the rest of his life but still not contemplate burning down a city with half a million people in it. That's why the "If Joffrey had lived" argument doesn't hold because we don't know what he would have done or not done.

[honeyed chicken]

Interesting discussion.

Barristan Selmy seemed to find some redeeming qualities in Aerys when he was telling Dany about dear old dad.

I doubt anybody could find anything nice to say about Joffrey who was both a coward and a sadist.

I also wonder if Joff would have wandered down the same path to madness that Aerys did. Remember when Jamie was asked what Aerys said when he killed him (maybe this was TV only?), "The same thing he'd been saying all day: "Burn them all.""

Joff loved inflicting pain, but other than that he didn't seem like the madness type . . . maybe?

To me the parallels between Joff & Aerys add fuel to the questions of Cersei & Jamie's parentage.