Joffrey was NOT worse than Aerys

[the trees have eyes]

Aerys could had been a good king sure as Joff could be. The point is that it doesn't matter what you could be or what you was it's what you have done and what both Aerys and Joff had done is that they were monsters.

Yes. It's like first degree murder (Aerys) second degree murder (Joff). However I never said that any of them was at any "goodness scale".

That wasn't really my point. I tend to think of Aerys as Jack Nicholson in The Shining, charming at first but with "lapses" and going down hill at a faster and faster pace. So by the time he's smashing down the door with an axe you don't particularly care about his motives, you're just glad he freezes to death outside.

But if there were two guys smashing down the door and one was mad and the other sane is the sane one not worse in that he understands what he is doing but does it anyway. Objectively at the point the axe hypothetically splits your skull one is no worse than the other (to the victim) but would you not consider the one we deem fit to be held accountable for his actions to be "worse"?

[Lord Damian]

Considering Aerys reigned for over 20 years, it seems his lunacy took fruition in his last few years. Joff ruled for what, 1 1/2 years and look at all the insane shit he did. Westeros could not have survived 5 years of him and this is probably why I suspect Tywin went along with the Purple Wedding. Yeah, I know, he would not do it due to his pride, well, he was going to let Tyrion die an innocent man who was his own son, What did Tywin care for the Gods anyway? He knew, he did it to save the family legacy from Joff whom he recognized as a monster when he called him, Tywin a coward and fearful of Aerys and told him he hid under the Rock during the Rebellion. Tywin knew it then and something had to be done, enter Oleana Tyrell who had the same misgivings about her Granddaughter marrying him. Tywin though, I do not think knew about Littlefinger though.

[Tormund GiantsMANE]

The only way Joff comes out better than Aerys is because he was killed before he could really do any more damage. I can only imagine the atrocities he would commit or order to be committed.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Joffrey is better than Aerys because he is worse. Mind Blown?

Like Caligula the likes of Joffrey would be assassinated before he can cause the kind of damage someone who starts better and his rule is entrenched for many years and turns into a complete monster. Of course Joffrey being Joffrey still caused a lot of damage. But the less impressively bad people are harder to get rid of and Robert's rebellion for one came with bigger consequences and indeed from this perspective Cersei is also worse than Joffrey.

To trully do lasting damage you need a certain competency and sanity that combines with your incompetence, cruelty and madness. That fits Cersei and her plots which with someone like Joffrey would have blown even more strongly on his face and failed sooner.

Joffrey is so fucking awful that he is more unable to succeed at staying there and keep fucking shit up than other awful rulers. So due to his character a king like Joffrey is unlikely to be allowed to succeed in doing the stuf Aerys ended up doing after first giving up years of peace. He wouldn't do those things because he would be dead. And dead Joffrey and rotting> both alive Joffrey and Aerys. Dead Joffrey is also better than alive Cersei. So the mix of incompetence and awfulness that is Joffrey leads to a better result of less awfulness and incompetence (dead Joffrey) than Aerys and Cersei (alive both). In short he is more self destructive which is an actual consequence of who he is and has a good result. Of course that is unintentional and he doesn't deserve to be praised for it. But it is a true consequence all the same of who he is, and what would happen under his reign and how long he would rule and fuck shit up in comparison to someone like Aerys and Cersei. The hypothetical of what he would have done otherwise won't happen because precisiely who he is, he starts so awful he is not allowed to go that far.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Let's put aside the "good" vs "bad" argument for a moment and let's consider they both are simply mad or sick people.

Aerys was, for what it looks like, an "ok" kid, and he grew up to be an "ok" man, who turned out to be a good acceptable King who took good decisions. Later in life (at his 30s?), he was taken prisoner and his madness started to develop into paranoid, which whenever provoked, became cruelty and sadism. As far as we know, he didn't go around hurting people just because he considered it to be fun, not as a child, not as a King. And ordering physical punishment to those who disrespect the King is not rare even for the sane Targaryens, although many of those could have been more compassionate about it, or at least, less "noisy".

Joffrey, whatever mental problem he had, it could be identified since he was very young. The "cat situation" is what many parents could have considered an alarm sign, but apparently, no one thought as such, probably because the event was overshadowed by Robert's reaction of hitting him so hard that he could have killed him and because Cersei soon tried to dismiss it.

When he was King, he realised no one could control him anymore, which it's something that happens, just to put some actual example, with many young famous teens. As soon as they have money, they get out of their parent's grip and out of their control: they are often caught with drugs, underage drinking, car accidents, sexual misbehaviour and similar things. We don't see that with kids whose parents actually act like parents (just compare Lindsay Lohan with Emma Watson, for instance). Of course, these Hollywood kids aren't all psychopaths. While their actions are indeed hurtful to others (mostly when a vehicle is involved), they don't purposely target people, they only disregard the consequences of their actions. Joffrey, besides his lack of empathy for others, once crowned, realised he could actually treat people like they were their pets, and instead of simply experiment with drugs or alcohol, he let out his cruel instincts and attacked peasants, beggars and Sansa Stark.

So, if we consider they both are "mad" and not "evil" or "bad"; then whatever Aegon Aerys had was more controllable than Joffrey's problems. Even after his madness developed, even during the rebellion, he was able to make acceptable decisions, right up until the moment he named a pyromancer as Hand, at least, because honestly, neither Connington or Chelsted were bad choices (and neither Merrywheater nor Connington were roasted, so, Aerys didn't go around burning people like many assume). Also, the naming of the pyromancer wasn't that random or some mere act of a mad man: there is some sort of "logic" behind the chain of events that leaded Rossart to be named Hand: Merrywheater tried diplomacy and failed. Connington tried a military approach and failed. I can't remember what Chelsted did but he opposed the King, so, he failed. When Aerys realised they were going to lose the war, and it was all practically lost, he also lost his mind and tried to kill everybody.

Joffrey's rule, OTOH, was once mistake after another, starting with the murder of Ned Stark, which brought the North into the War. Up until that, I could even justify this mistake as his own inexperience as both a King and a person: he was 13 at the time, IICR. But later, we hear instances of him actually enjoying targeting living beings and hurt them, at that very same age we use to justify his lack of life experience. And while Aerys tried to set the whole city on fire after he saw himself defeated, Joffrey wanted everybody executed when he saw his own people discontent about his ruling. The only other person I remember being this level of crazy was Aerion Brightflame, who ended up drinking wildfire because he would be a dragon.

ETA: Also, Aerys decision to kill everything happened after Rhaegar was killed, hence, there is an event that caused his reaction. Not only he had lost his son and heir, but this was a big strike from the rebellion. Joffrey didn't look very affected by Robert's death, and killing Ned had nothing to do with it, really. That would have been, at least, a bit understandable.

So, in retrospective because tl;dr:

Ignoring labels like "good/evil", Joffrey's madness was worst than Aerys'.

Aerys responded cruelty after he was provoked. Joffrey simply enjoyed being cruel.

People close to Aerys was able to see how bad he was. In Joffrey, many tried to justify it.

Aerys, even in his madness, was able to take acceptable decisions. Joffrey didn't.

So, yes. Joffrey was DEFINITELY worse than Aerys.

[stateofdissipation]

Let's put aside the "good" vs "bad" argument for a moment and let's consider they both are simply mad or sick people.

Aerys was, for what it looks like, an "ok" kid, and he grew up to be an "ok" man, who turned out to be a good acceptable King who took good decisions. Later in life (at his 30s?), he was taken prisoner and his madness started to develop into paranoid, which whenever provoked, became cruelty and sadism. As far as we know, he didn't go around hurting people just because he considered it to be fun, not as a child, not as a King. And ordering physical punishment to those who disrespect the King is not rare even for the sane Targaryens, although many of those could have been more compassionate about it, or at least, less "noisy".

Joffrey, whatever mental problem he had, it could be identified since he was very young. The "cat situation" is what many parents could have considered an alarm sign, but apparently, no one thought as such, probably because the event was overshadowed by Robert's reaction of hitting him so hard that he could have killed him and because Cersei soon tried to dismiss it.

When he was King, he realised no one could control him anymore, which it's something that happens, just to put some actual example, with many young famous teens. As soon as they have money, they get out of their parent's grip and out of their control: they are often caught with drugs, underage drinking, car accidents, sexual misbehaviour and similar things. We don't see that with kids whose parents actually act like parents (just compare Lindsay Lohan with Emma Watson, for instance). Of course, these Hollywood kids aren't all psychopaths. While their actions are indeed hurtful to others (mostly when a vehicle is involved), they don't purposely target people, they only disregard the consequences of their actions. Joffrey, besides his lack of empathy for others, once crowned, realised he could actually treat people like they were their pets, and instead of simply experiment with drugs or alcohol, he let out his cruel instincts and attacked peasants, beggars and Sansa Stark.

So, if we consider they both are "mad" and not "evil" or "bad"; then whatever Aegon had was more controllable than Joffrey's problems. Even after his madness developed, even during the rebellion, he was able to make acceptable decisions, right up until the moment he named a pyromancer as Hand, at least, because honestly, neither Connington or Chelsted were bad choices (and neither Merrywheater nor Connington were roasted, so, Aerys didn't go around burning people like many assume). Also, the naming of the pyromancer wasn't that random or some mere act of a mad man: there is some sort of "logic" behind the chain of events that leaded Rossart to be named Hand: Merrywheater tried diplomacy and failed. Connington tried a military approach and failed. I can't remember what Chelsted did but he opposed the King, so, he failed. When Aerys realised they were going to lose the war, and it was all practically lost, he also lost his mind and tried to kill everybody.

Joffrey's rule, OTOH, was once mistake after another, starting with the murder of Ned Stark, which brought the North into the War. Up until that, I could even justify this mistake as his own inexperience as both a King and a person: he was 13 at the time, IICR. But later, we hear instances of him actually enjoying targeting living beings and hurt them, at that very same age we use to justify his lack of life experience. And while Aerys tried to set the whole city on fire after he saw himself defeated, Joffrey wanted everybody executed when he saw his own people discontent about his ruling. The only other person I remember being this level of crazy was Aerion Brightflame, who ended up drinking wildfire because he would be a dragon.

So, in retrospective because tl;dr:

Ignoring labels like "good/evil", Joffrey's madness was worst than Aerys'.

Aerys responded cruelty after he was provoked. Joffrey simply enjoyed being cruel.

People close to Aerys was able to see how bad he was. In Joffrey, many tried to justify it.

Aerys, even in his madness, was able to take acceptable decisions. Joffrey didn't.

So, yes. Joffrey was DEFINITELY worse than Aerys.

Solid argument...well stated...

[the trees have eyes]

Let's put aside the "good" vs "bad" argument for a moment and let's consider they both are simply mad or sick people.

Aerys was, for what it looks like, an "ok" kid, and he grew up to be an "ok" man, who turned out to be a good acceptable King who took good decisions. Later in life (at his 30s?), he was taken prisoner and his madness started to develop into paranoid, which whenever provoked, became cruelty and sadism. As far as we know, he didn't go around hurting people just because he considered it to be fun, not as a child, not as a King. And ordering physical punishment to those who disrespect the King is not rare even for the sane Targaryens, although many of those could have been more compassionate about it, or at least, less "noisy".

Joffrey, whatever mental problem he had, it could be identified since he was very young. The "cat situation" is what many parents could have considered an alarm sign, but apparently, no one thought as such, probably because the event was overshadowed by Robert's reaction of hitting him so hard that he could have killed him and because Cersei soon tried to dismiss it.

When he was King, he realised no one could control him anymore, which it's something that happens, just to put some actual example, with many young famous teens. As soon as they have money, they get out of their parent's grip and out of their control: they are often caught with drugs, underage drinking, car accidents, sexual misbehaviour and similar things. We don't see that with kids whose parents actually act like parents (just compare Lindsay Lohan with Emma Watson, for instance). Of course, these Hollywood kids aren't all psychopaths. While their actions are indeed hurtful to others (mostly when a vehicle is involved), they don't purposely target people, they only disregard the consequences of their actions. Joffrey, besides his lack of empathy for others, once crowned, realised he could actually treat people like they were their pets, and instead of simply experiment with drugs or alcohol, he let out his cruel instincts and attacked peasants, beggars and Sansa Stark.

So, if we consider they both are "mad" and not "evil" or "bad"; then whatever Aegon had was more controllable than Joffrey's problems. Even after his madness developed, even during the rebellion, he was able to make acceptable decisions, right up until the moment he named a pyromancer as Hand, at least, because honestly, neither Connington or Chelsted were bad choices (and neither Merrywheater nor Connington were roasted, so, Aerys didn't go around burning people like many assume). Also, the naming of the pyromancer wasn't that random or some mere act of a mad man: there is some sort of "logic" behind the chain of events that leaded Rossart to be named Hand: Merrywheater tried diplomacy and failed. Connington tried a military approach and failed. I can't remember what Chelsted did but he opposed the King, so, he failed. When Aerys realised they were going to lose the war, and it was all practically lost, he also lost his mind and tried to kill everybody.

Joffrey's rule, OTOH, was once mistake after another, starting with the murder of Ned Stark, which brought the North into the War. Up until that, I could even justify this mistake as his own inexperience as both a King and a person: he was 13 at the time, IICR. But later, we hear instances of him actually enjoying targeting living beings and hurt them, at that very same age we use to justify his lack of life experience. And while Aerys tried to set the whole city on fire after he saw himself defeated, Joffrey wanted everybody executed when he saw his own people discontent about his ruling. The only other person I remember being this level of crazy was Aerion Brightflame, who ended up drinking wildfire because he would be a dragon.

So, in retrospective because tl;dr:

Ignoring labels like "good/evil", Joffrey's madness was worst than Aerys'.

Aerys responded cruelty after he was provoked. Joffrey simply enjoyed being cruel.

People close to Aerys was able to see how bad he was. In Joffrey, many tried to justify it.

Aerys, even in his madness, was able to take acceptable decisions. Joffrey didn't.

So, yes. Joffrey was DEFINITELY worse than Aerys.

Mostly agree. According to Barristan Aerys had "lapses" (whatever they were) and a profound paranoia that Varys manipulated before the defiance of Duskendale pushed him over the edge much later on (it was the proof that people were out to get him). It wasn't a sudden change from benevolent to despotic but the end of a journey.

We saw Joffrey's real character with Mycah and Ayra on the Trident and later learned that he sent the assassin after Bran even before this. We saw him mocking Robb and Ser Rodrik at Winterfell, a complete lack of empathy for Bran after his fall (for which Tyrion gave him a dressing down) and his pleasure when Cersei contrived to get Lady killed in Nymeria's place.

Joffrey was more Maegor the Cruel material than Aerys the Mad King.

[Kaguya]

Let's put aside the "good" vs "bad" argument for a moment and let's consider they both are simply mad or sick people.

Aerys was, for what it looks like, an "ok" kid, and he grew up to be an "ok" man, who turned out to be a good acceptable King who took good decisions. Later in life (at his 30s?), he was taken prisoner and his madness started to develop into paranoid, which whenever provoked, became cruelty and sadism. As far as we know, he didn't go around hurting people just because he considered it to be fun, not as a child, not as a King. And ordering physical punishment to those who disrespect the King is not rare even for the sane Targaryens, although many of those could have been more compassionate about it, or at least, less "noisy".

Joffrey, whatever mental problem he had, it could be identified since he was very young. The "cat situation" is what many parents could have considered an alarm sign, but apparently, no one thought as such, probably because the event was overshadowed by Robert's reaction of hitting him so hard that he could have killed him and because Cersei soon tried to dismiss it.

When he was King, he realised no one could control him anymore, which it's something that happens, just to put some actual example, with many young famous teens. As soon as they have money, they get out of their parent's grip and out of their control: they are often caught with drugs, underage drinking, car accidents, sexual misbehaviour and similar things. We don't see that with kids whose parents actually act like parents (just compare Lindsay Lohan with Emma Watson, for instance). Of course, these Hollywood kids aren't all psychopaths. While their actions are indeed hurtful to others (mostly when a vehicle is involved), they don't purposely target people, they only disregard the consequences of their actions. Joffrey, besides his lack of empathy for others, once crowned, realised he could actually treat people like they were their pets, and instead of simply experiment with drugs or alcohol, he let out his cruel instincts and attacked peasants, beggars and Sansa Stark.

So, if we consider they both are "mad" and not "evil" or "bad"; then whatever Aegon Aerys had was more controllable than Joffrey's problems. Even after his madness developed, even during the rebellion, he was able to make acceptable decisions, right up until the moment he named a pyromancer as Hand, at least, because honestly, neither Connington or Chelsted were bad choices (and neither Merrywheater nor Connington were roasted, so, Aerys didn't go around burning people like many assume). Also, the naming of the pyromancer wasn't that random or some mere act of a mad man: there is some sort of "logic" behind the chain of events that leaded Rossart to be named Hand: Merrywheater tried diplomacy and failed. Connington tried a military approach and failed. I can't remember what Chelsted did but he opposed the King, so, he failed. When Aerys realised they were going to lose the war, and it was all practically lost, he also lost his mind and tried to kill everybody.

Joffrey's rule, OTOH, was once mistake after another, starting with the murder of Ned Stark, which brought the North into the War. Up until that, I could even justify this mistake as his own inexperience as both a King and a person: he was 13 at the time, IICR. But later, we hear instances of him actually enjoying targeting living beings and hurt them, at that very same age we use to justify his lack of life experience. And while Aerys tried to set the whole city on fire after he saw himself defeated, Joffrey wanted everybody executed when he saw his own people discontent about his ruling. The only other person I remember being this level of crazy was Aerion Brightflame, who ended up drinking wildfire because he would be a dragon.

ETA: Also, Aerys decision to kill everything happened after Rhaegar was killed, hence, there is an event that caused his reaction. Not only he had lost his son and heir, but this was a big strike from the rebellion. Joffrey didn't look very affected by Robert's death, and killing Ned had nothing to do with it, really. That would have been, at least, a bit understandable.

So, in retrospective because tl;dr:

Ignoring labels like "good/evil", Joffrey's madness was worst than Aerys'.

Aerys responded cruelty after he was provoked. Joffrey simply enjoyed being cruel.

People close to Aerys was able to see how bad he was. In Joffrey, many tried to justify it.

Aerys, even in his madness, was able to take acceptable decisions. Joffrey didn't.

So, yes. Joffrey was DEFINITELY worse than Aerys.

So many wrongs here. Most of Aery's 'enemies' that he executed as his 'duty' were not even enemies to begin with. And you say he didn't get joy from it....His penis doesn't agree with you.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Let's put aside the "good" vs "bad" argument for a moment and let's consider they both are simply mad or sick people.

Aerys was, for what it looks like, an "ok" kid, and he grew up to be an "ok" man, who turned out to be a good acceptable King who took good decisions. Later in life (at his 30s?), he was taken prisoner and his madness started to develop into paranoid, which whenever provoked, became cruelty and sadism. As far as we know, he didn't go around hurting people just because he considered it to be fun, not as a child, not as a King. And ordering physical punishment to those who disrespect the King is not rare even for the sane Targaryens, although many of those could have been more compassionate about it, or at least, less "noisy".

Joffrey, whatever mental problem he had, it could be identified since he was very young. The "cat situation" is what many parents could have considered an alarm sign, but apparently, no one thought as such, probably because the event was overshadowed by Robert's reaction of hitting him so hard that he could have killed him and because Cersei soon tried to dismiss it.

When he was King, he realised no one could control him anymore, which it's something that happens, just to put some actual example, with many young famous teens. As soon as they have money, they get out of their parent's grip and out of their control: they are often caught with drugs, underage drinking, car accidents, sexual misbehaviour and similar things. We don't see that with kids whose parents actually act like parents (just compare Lindsay Lohan with Emma Watson, for instance). Of course, these Hollywood kids aren't all psychopaths. While their actions are indeed hurtful to others (mostly when a vehicle is involved), they don't purposely target people, they only disregard the consequences of their actions. Joffrey, besides his lack of empathy for others, once crowned, realised he could actually treat people like they were their pets, and instead of simply experiment with drugs or alcohol, he let out his cruel instincts and attacked peasants, beggars and Sansa Stark.

So, if we consider they both are "mad" and not "evil" or "bad"; then whatever Aegon Aerys had was more controllable than Joffrey's problems. Even after his madness developed, even during the rebellion, he was able to make acceptable decisions, right up until the moment he named a pyromancer as Hand, at least, because honestly, neither Connington or Chelsted were bad choices (and neither Merrywheater nor Connington were roasted, so, Aerys didn't go around burning people like many assume). Also, the naming of the pyromancer wasn't that random or some mere act of a mad man: there is some sort of "logic" behind the chain of events that leaded Rossart to be named Hand: Merrywheater tried diplomacy and failed. Connington tried a military approach and failed. I can't remember what Chelsted did but he opposed the King, so, he failed. When Aerys realised they were going to lose the war, and it was all practically lost, he also lost his mind and tried to kill everybody.

Joffrey's rule, OTOH, was once mistake after another, starting with the murder of Ned Stark, which brought the North into the War. Up until that, I could even justify this mistake as his own inexperience as both a King and a person: he was 13 at the time, IICR. But later, we hear instances of him actually enjoying targeting living beings and hurt them, at that very same age we use to justify his lack of life experience. And while Aerys tried to set the whole city on fire after he saw himself defeated, Joffrey wanted everybody executed when he saw his own people discontent about his ruling. The only other person I remember being this level of crazy was Aerion Brightflame, who ended up drinking wildfire because he would be a dragon.

ETA: Also, Aerys decision to kill everything happened after Rhaegar was killed, hence, there is an event that caused his reaction. Not only he had lost his son and heir, but this was a big strike from the rebellion. Joffrey didn't look very affected by Robert's death, and killing Ned had nothing to do with it, really. That would have been, at least, a bit understandable.

So, in retrospective because tl;dr:

Ignoring labels like "good/evil", Joffrey's madness was worst than Aerys'.

Aerys responded cruelty after he was provoked. Joffrey simply enjoyed being cruel.

People close to Aerys was able to see how bad he was. In Joffrey, many tried to justify it.

Aerys, even in his madness, was able to take acceptable decisions. Joffrey didn't.

So, yes. Joffrey was DEFINITELY worse than Aerys.

Typical JonCon trolling at its finest.

Neither can compare to Ramsay, so hush all of you!

[Kaguya]

I don't see how Joff was worse than Aerys.

Aerys tried to kill thousands of people in order to prevent Robert's reign over living people you can't get worse than that.

Nor do i

[Kaguya]

I don't really see how. He comes across as a sociopath - there's very little that his parents (including Robert here) could have done that would have prevented him being a cruel sadist. Sociopaths with the level of power a monarch had in a feudal society? Bad combination all round.

More stereotyping. You think every psychopath is a menace to society? Heres a hint, most aren't.

Joffrey was being raised by an evil Queen who taught him all her methods, combine psychopathy with that and what do you think you're going to get.

[DavosSeaworthy]

Joffery was worse, hands down. Aerys reign was at first described as quite promising, then he eventually went mad due to Tywin outshining him and the events of the Defiance os Duskendale. Joffery was a piece of garbage from day one and if he had a longer reign he likely would have been known as the worst king ever.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

So many wrongs here. Most of Aery's 'enemies' that he executed as his 'duty' were not even enemies to begin with. And you say he didn't get joy from it....His penis doesn't agree with you.

Funny, I haven't used the word "enemy" in my post, so I really have no idea what you mean. Let's part with the fact that everybody who did anything against the King is, by definition, a traitor, and betrayal is punished with death. A saner and more compassionate King like Jahaerys probably had opted for a merciful way out like the Wall, exile, or stripping such traitor from lands and titles. Aerys did a bit of both. Let's analyse:

Ilyn Payne: He made fun of the King's authority -> Aerys cut his tongue.

House Darklyn/House Holland: Simply put, they kidnapped the King -> They got all killed.

Brandon Stark: Threatened to kill the Crown Prince -> got arrested.

Rickard Stark: Asked a Trial by Combat -> Aerys chose fire.

(notice that Aerys didn't just ask for the Starks because he thought it would be fun: justified or not, Brandon did provoked the King)

Robert/Ned: Aerys probably thought they were plotting against him -> Asked for their heads.

Owen Merryweather: Failed to capture Robert -> Exiled.

Jon Connington: Failed to capture Robert -> Exiled.

Qarlton Chelsted: Told the King he was wrong -> Burned.

Besides the Houses involved in the Defiance of Duskendale, Aerys didn't target people who didn't directly offended him: he had reasons and motivations to punish, even though this motivations were paranoia and fear. Also, he didn't use wildfire like some sort of magical viagra: he didn't burn people so he would feel aroused and rape his wife. Joffrey did hurt people to feel better. Don't you believe me?

Robb Stark: humiliated him because he knew Robb couldn't fight him back.

Bran Stark: tried to kill him because he thought his father would be please

Mycah: Like Robb, he bullied him because he knew he couldn't defend himself.

Sansa: he ordered the KG to beat him because her brother won a battle and captured Jaime.

Rabbits: those he shoots and even almost hit Ser Preston.

Cats: the one when he was a kid, another one, yellow, during the same episode he bullied Sansa.

Some beggar: for asking bread.

The rioters: for asking food and insult him.

None of them insulted, offended or attacked Joffrey in any way, except the rioters, which was probably only ONE single person, but that caused Joffrey to ask kill them all.

Neither can compare to Ramsay, so hush all of you!

Sadly, this is true :/

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Joffrey was being raised by an evil Queen who taught him all her methods, combine psychopathy with that and what do you think you're going to get.

Aerys had people doing his work, his council, his Hand(s), his KG. Also, people was aware of his mental problem and there is a chance they were trying to depose him. So, if we compare this with what you post above, then Aerys was LESS dangerous than Joffrey.

Just think about this: Aerys's madness was known for years, yet, no one poisoned him or rebel against him until he actually committed one single act against a Lord. And his son probably wanted to take him down peacefully. Joffrey was taken down after two years of endless cruelty, because they knew they couldn't control him. He was worst.

[Dofs]

@T.C. Joffrey murdered a cat and tore out it's fetuses before the age of twelve. I don't know how much clearly GRRM needs to be to show that it is definitely nature. Joffrey was insane by nature

Well, first, GRRM should then stop telling in the interviews that Joffrey is a classic bully that could have grown into an ok person. Also, many children are cruel to animals or just cruel. And by many I do not mean only psychopaths and maniacs but really very many children.

[LordStoneheart]

First off, how does him being a classic bully exonerate him from being a sociopath? Second, he did not say Joffrey could grow into an ok person. he said bullies can, and though Joffrey won't have that chance he still said we wouldn't be good. Besides, if you look at the context of that interview, it's clear he's just trying to make viewers reconsider celebrating the death of a thirteen year old. He doesn't say anything about Joffrey's good qualities, because they're non-existent, he suggests that despite being monstrous he was still capable of being terrified in the face of death. And yes, he literally used the world monstrous.

But I thought we weren't supposed to be talking about what could have been?? :rolleyes: Only what is. And what we have is two shit kings but only one with a good start and only one that was "monstrous" before puberty.

Maybe it's just me but I have much more sympathy for a person who descended into madness after some bad events than a person who started out mad because he could and no one could stop him and took enjoyment from it.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Okay i have seen a few people on here and on other websites comment saying that they think Joffrey is worse than Aerys was...Well i personally believe that is ludicrous.

Joffreys track record

- Attempted to kill Bran

- Killed Ned Stark (mostly under LF's influence)

- Beat Sansa here and there

- Killed peasants with Crossbows

- Abused whores (Not sure if this is book cannon, memory is foggy)

Okay yeah, Joffrey clearly is a horrible person, but...

Aerys Track record

- Raped and abused his wife

- Cut out Ilyn Paynes toungue

- Burned people frequently and ejaculated from it

- Burned Rickard Stark alive and caused Brandon to choke to death watching on a torture device (seriously this is disgusting)

- Attempted to commit democide on half a million people with wildfire

I'm sure i left a few out for both of them but yeah as you can see i don't personally see any comparison on who was more vile. I mean yeah some will say 'Oh but Aerys started out promising'. My reply to that is so what? Him being 'nice' once doesn't suddenly erase or justify his atrocities committed later on.

He didn't live long enough.

Joff did call for the musicians tongue or fingers.

He couldn't burn Rickard, Aery's already did ;).

He did force Sansa to look at her dead father, enjoyed making people suffer, ordered the slaughter of bastard babies, etc. Ordered Ser Maryn to beat Sansa.

[Kaguya]

He didn't live long enough.

Joff did call for the musicians tongue or fingers.

He couldn't burn Rickard, Aery's already did ;).

He did force Sansa to look at her dead father, enjoyed making people suffer, ordered the slaughter of bastard babies, etc. Ordered Ser Maryn to beat Sansa.

False.

[Kaguya]

But I thought we weren't supposed to be talking about what could have been?? :rolleyes: Only what is. And what we have is two shit kings but only one with a good start and only one that was "monstrous" before puberty.

That's what all the Joffrey voters have been doing this entire thread :ack:

[LordStoneheart]

Sarcasm, hence the eye roll.