BastardlyRock Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Had Joff lived he would have lived to be a worse king than the Mad King himself. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Had Joff lived he would have lived to be a worse king than the Mad King himself. It is known. Aerys was killed to prevent the burning of KL.... it is a pretty good reason to want him dead. Joff was killed because he was a monster though he posed no specific threat at the time.... umless he was really that bad. it was not a good reason. Which is worse? The decision to kill Joff was this person does not deserve to live... The decision to kill Aerys was this person poses a threat... Were Aerys not king nobody would have wanted him dead.... locked up maybe but not dead.. being mad and all... Being king had nothing to do with people wanting him dead.... If Joff was a stable boy somebody would have had to kill him.. Bad egg that one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoravar Singh Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Aerys accomplished his mad deeds over 40 years( approximately), and the very fact that we compare this to what Jofferey achieved in two years shows who the worse out of the two was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Aerys accomplished his mad deeds over 40 years( approximately), and the very fact that we compare this to what Jofferey achieved in two years shows who the worse out of the two was. It took 40 years for somebody to get sick enough of Aerys to kill him..... Joff accomplished that same feat in 2.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorey Targaryen Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 In the Mad King's defence, Ser Ilyn did slander His Highness and Aerys could hve done alot worse than cut off his tongue (like cut off his junk or even kill him). I'll agree with everything else though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Had Joff lived he would have lived to be a worse king than the Mad King himself. It is known. Um no, it's just an assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Aerys was burning people alive and raping his WIFE not a whore or a baseborn woman HIS WIFE. And Aerys tried to have his whole city burned. Someone like Little Walder is worse than Joffrey in my eyes. Thank you! I'm glad I'm not alone in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Its because he did terrible things to those people, for me it was all about murdering the children that turned me completely against him. But we will have to agree to disagree when it comes to Little Walder. Children? I assume you mean Roberts Bastards? That wasn't Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Um no, it's just an assumption. Does GRRM seriously need to write out "Joffrey would have been worse than Aerys II had he grown up" specifically? Because he entire arc as king was basically a letter spelling that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakmanuk Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Okay i have seen a few people on here and on other websites comment saying that they think Joffrey is worse than Aerys was...Well i personally believe that is ludicrous. Joffreys track record - Attempted to kill Bran - Killed Ned Stark (mostly under LF's influence) - Beat Sansa here and there - Killed peasants with Crossbows - Abused whores (Not sure if this is book cannon, memory is foggy) Okay yeah, Joffrey clearly is a horrible person, but... Aerys Track record - Raped and abused his wife - Cut out Ilyn Paynes toungue - Burned people frequently and ejaculated from it - Burned Rickard Stark alive and caused Brandon to choke to death watching on a torture device (seriously this is disgusting) - Attempted to commit democide on half a million people with wildfire I'm sure i left a few out for both of them but yeah as you can see i don't personally see any comparison on who was more vile. I mean yeah some will say 'Oh but Aerys started out promising'. My reply to that is so what? Him being 'nice' once doesn't suddenly erase or justify his atrocities committed later on. Joffrey also told his guards to kill the king's landing mob. but yeah Aerys is worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 It is easy to enough to figure out just go over to the Wiki and search Aerys II vs Joffrey Baratheon...Joffrey would have been a far worse king should his reign been longer....Oh and Joff was not the target of the assassination Tyrion was...Cersei screwed up and killed her own son.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Does GRRM seriously need to write out "Joffrey would have been worse than Aerys II had he grown up" specifically? Because he entire arc as king was basically a letter spelling that out. No. His arc simply spelt out he was a a psychopathic asshole in his own right. He still didn't do anything as bad as Aerys did though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 No. His arc simply spelt out he was a a psychopathic asshole in his own right. He still didn't do anything as bad as Aerys did though.I suppose Tyrion's thoughts about him being Aerys III are also irrelevant? I really do think direct comparisons like that are in the text for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulthosian Stark Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I've come to the conclusion of troll or child, all reasons have been given and it seems the majority favors Joff as worse then Aerys. I like how one user simply put it I recall but am too tired to search out"It took Aerys his whole reign to get someone to be sick enough of him to kill him, Joff accomplished this in 2 years, so yeah he was worse"I just don't get how people think someone who descended into madness was worse then someone born mad. If Joff learned of the wildfire pots around the city I'm sure he'd make use of them just as Aerys would have, he was too young to rape anyone but I'm sure he would have gotten to that point, already demonstrates he's capable of calling for mass murder (Ordering the rioters to be put to the sword after being hit with some poo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I've come to the conclusion of troll or child, all reasons have been given and it seems the majority favors Joff as worse then Aerys. I like how one user simply put it I recall but am too tired to search out"It took Aerys his whole reign to get someone to be sick enough of him to kill him, Joff accomplished this in 2 years, so yeah he was worse"I just don't get how people think someone who descended into madness was worse then someone born mad. If Joff learned of the wildfire pots around the city I'm sure he'd make use of them just as Aerys would have, he was too young to rape anyone but I'm sure he would have gotten to that point, already demonstrates he's capable of calling for mass murder (Ordering the rioters to be put to the sword after being hit with some poo) You are just assuming Joffrey was born evil for the hell of it. Not all psychopaths are evil, that's a stereotype similar to all paedophiles being child molesters. Joffrey was being raised by an equally psychopathic mother that was grooming him to be king and telling him that 'fear is greater than love'. How do you expect him too turn out? Had he been raised by Ned or Stannis he would have turned out far better. Also, Aerys wasn't a good person anyway pre-dunkensdale. He was known for still having fits of rage and he constantly belittled Tywin, the kidnapping just unmasked his true self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You are just assuming Joffrey was born evil for the hell of it. Not all psychopaths are evil, that's a stereotype similar to all paedophiles being child molesters. Joffrey was being raised by an equally psychopathic mother that was grooming him to be king and telling him that 'fear is greater than love'. How do you expect him too turn out? Had he been raised by Ned or Stannis he would have turned out far better. Also, Aerys was never a good person anyway pre-dunkensdale. He was known for still having fits of rage and he constantly belittled Tywin, the kidnapping just unmasked his true self.But Joffrey wasn't raised by Ned or Stannis, so what he might have been is of no value. He was raised by a cruel vindictive mother and an absentee "father" and turned out exactly as crazy as he was. He has shown signs of extreme cruelty from an early age and has gotten worse with power. It is not just an assumption that he would continue to get worse like you keep stating. It's the basic rreading of the text. You can try to deny it all you want, but Joffrey was a giant stinking pile of shit crazy cruel person. There was no hope for him because he clearly enjoys his cruelty. Aerys was not a giant stinking pile of shit crazy in the be beginning. Sure he had some angry outburst, but so does everyone. We've heard of quite a few angry outbursts from Robert, does that's make him evil or crazy? How about Ned with his outburst twords Cat for asking about Jon? Everyone has outbursts. Aerys was regarded as a good king in the beginning, and not just because of Tywin. He did become crazy or cruel until much later in life, after a very traumatic incident, and PTSD can completely change a person. Joffrey was on par with Aerys within his first 2 years of kingship, and logic dictates that because he showed zero signs of becoming not an evil douche, in fact was steadily getting worse, that by year 4 people would be begging for Aerys back. Joffery would have been worse them Aerys, that's a fact, not an assumption. People who have unlimited power and enjoy hurting others don't just become good people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Because fits of rage are unique to Aerys, and that means he was always a 100% bad person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think it is telling that even Tywin, who was Hand to Aerys, was deeply.troubled by Joffrey's behaviour. For such cruelty and evil to come.from.a 13 year old boy is rather disturbing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 But Joffrey wasn't raised by Ned or Stannis, so what he might have been is of no value.He was raised by a cruel vindictive mother and an absentee "father" and turned out exactly as crazy as he was. He has shown signs of extreme cruelty from an early age and has gotten worse with power. It is not just an assumption that he would continue to get worse like you keep stating. It's the basic rreading of the text. You can try to deny it all you want, but Joffrey was a giant stinking pile of shit crazy cruel person. There was no hope for him because he clearly enjoys his cruelty.Aerys was not a giant stinking pile of shit crazy in the be beginning. Sure he had some angry outburst, but so does everyone. We've heard of quite a few angry outbursts from Robert, does that's make him evil or crazy? How about Ned with his outburst twords Cat for asking about Jon? Everyone has outbursts. Aerys was regarded as a good king in the beginning, and not just because of Tywin. He did become crazy or cruel until much later in life, after a very traumatic incident, and PTSD can completely change a person.Joffrey was on par with Aerys within his first 2 years of kingship, and logic dictates that because he showed zero signs of becoming not an evil douche, in fact was steadily getting worse, that by year 4 people would be begging for Aerys back.Joffery would have been worse them Aerys, that's a fact, not an assumption. People who have unlimited power and enjoy hurting others don't just become good people. "He was raised by a cruel and vindictive mother" - Exactly, so he wasn't "born evil". He might have been a psychopath but it's the environment that usually brings out the evilness I'm not denying how bad Joff was bad. And sure, he probably would have gotten worse, but i think you guys are underestimating how high Aerys set the bar (Orgasm while burning people, rape and beats wife, was going to commit democide) and regardless of time, Aerys still did all that. Most serial killers never get that bad no matter how bad they develop, that's all i am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 But you can't say Aerys was born bad when the text hints otherwise and also say Joff was just a product of his upbringing, which is also hinted in the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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