Why the hatred for Jon?

[sj4iy]

Did GRRM really say this or is it just a rumour? I just did a quick Google search and didn't find any articles about it.

Well, hopefully I didn't misremember it...I recall reading it at some point (in an interview), but now I can't remember where or when.

We have this from the SSM (not as particular, but still pretty close):

Will we know in time, with certainty, the identity of Jon Snow's parents (I don't believe Edric Dayne's tale)? Personally, I really hope he's Lyanna and Rhaegar's son, despite looking so much like Eddard.

Jon's parentage will be revealed eventually, yes.

I guess if nothing else, it would seem pointless to reveal who Jon's parents if he were actually and forever dead.

[Knight Owl]

Why is it so hard for you to understand that people have different tastes in characters than you do?

From my point of view, I simply can't understand what there is to hate about Jon. People have different opinions, and I understand that. You and other are welcome to like/hate whomever you like, but I am also welcome to be confused as to why some can't stand Jon.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Well, Jon is part of a prophecy that is going to get fulfilled eventually. Whatever "magic" is causing that prophecy, needs Jon alive. And that's in the text, for those who have already caught RLJ.

I agree, actually, JonCon. But it just becomes blatantly obvious in some cases that he has to live, in a broader scope, him and Dany (At least until reaching Westeros). I don't actually find that bad, because, as some said, a protagonist has plot armor until he doesn't, but sometimes it becomes too evident, and IMO, a good author such as GRRM should avoid such moments. Sansa and Arya, IMO, have both lived without having said moments, but it is obvious both have, as Bran has, plot armor until they do something significant.

Don't lump us all together. Especially with the last part. IMHO, a true Jon fan wouldn't want his family to die just so he can have Winterfell.

I agree completely. In fact, I consider myself a Jon fan in some instances (And I personally dislike what was done to him in the show), but the fact that I've had arguments where people wrote off Sansa and Rickon with the lamest arguments ("They've arrived too late, It won't matter", "Sansa is Alayne now, and has no claim") has made me consider if we are the exception to the rule.

I'm a Jon fan. I have vehemently argued that Cat never abused Jon, but that comes less from Jon's fans than it does from Cat's haters. I've even argued that Jon was a spoiled brat in the first book. I've never even seen anyone argue that Rickon or Sansa should die off so Jon could get Winterfell...if anything, I think most people agree that whether Jon is heir to Winterfell or not, he would abdicate if Rickon were to arrive on the scene alive (or remain a guardian until Rickon became of age). Same with Sansa or whatever...Jon has made it very clear that he would not 'steal' his brother's birthright. Not sure I even understand what you mean by Dany 'giving' everything over to Jon- obviously, she would never 'give' him anything that she didn't think he earned, so that's a moot point.

I guess my point is that I find it frustrating that people paint ALL Jon fans with the same brush simply because a 'few' are rabid and refuse to admit anything negative about his character. Of course, every character has fans like that, some characters more than most, but I see more people say "I don't like Jon because of his fans!"

I understand your point completely, look above. And personally, I usually agree with your posts. But I've had arguments where people don't consider Jon's personality and most of all, Dany's, and claim she will somehow give the dragons and the unsullied to Jon (And in this forum, even), only to then argue that both have no value in order to enhance Jon's position over Dany (Which is again, purely speculative, considering both haven't met), and then proceed to ignore Jon's own line in the books, where Jon claims Winterfell belongs to Sansa.

Of course, all characters have fans like that, as you have said. But Jon's status as "The Chosen One", at least on some conceptions, turn this up to eleven.

[Wanderful]

Since his character is so internal (perhaps too reflective like his true father? wink wink), I think viewers have a hard time appreciating TV Show Jon. They dont fully understand his actions and don't get a good dose of his snark. And maybe Book Jon is too normal? Colorful or hateful characters are always a bit more fun to read. They tend to evoke stronger reactions from fans. But level headed, stereotypical good guys (especially in a fantasy setting) are often called "boring".

[RoamingRonin]

From my point of view, I simply can't understand what there is to hate about Jon. People have different opinions, and I understand that. You and other are welcome to like/hate whomever you like, but I am also welcome to be confused as to why some can't stand Jon.

Has anyone in this thread admitted to hating him? Multiple pages and most people are just saying he's boring.

[The Second To Last Dragon]

jon is just a dull, painful read. i only enjoyed his chapters when he met with stannis, their conversations are fun to read, they're both. very. awkward characters.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Show me someone lots of people love and I'll show you a group of people with irrational hate for him.

He's boring....really? That's reason enough to hate him? My grandma is boring but I love her and visit anyway.

[Knight Owl]

Show me someone lots of people love and I'll show you a group of people with irrational hate for him.

He's boring....really? That's reason enough to hate him? My grandma is boring but I love her and visit anyway.

:agree:

[Knight Owl]

Has anyone in this thread admitted to hating him? Multiple pages and most people are just saying he's boring.

Last time I checked, my post said nothing about everyone in this thread hating him. I haven't read every single post admittedly, but I was referring to the fact that many people in the forums have voiced clear disdain/hate for Jon. I am also noting that "many" of the Jon haters seem to get rather snarky when fans defend him, go figure.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

We all only like Jon because we're pro Stark.

[Le Cygne]

Will Jon Snow ever know, GRRM says yes here:

I have a million questions, but the one that I really am most wanting to know is .... will Jon ever find out about his parentage?

Eventually, yes.

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Center-Stage/George-R-R-Martin-The-Books/m-p/173335#M1386

[sj4iy]

Will Jon Snow ever know, GRRM says yes here:

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Center-Stage/George-R-R-Martin-The-Books/m-p/173335#M1386

Thank you! That's what I remembered but couldn't find.

[Knight Owl]

But what is fun in Jon's situation is that haters don't hate him because thay would want for their fav what Jon has, but what Jon is supposed to have because of all that secret parentage/prophecy thing.

Good point, while certain prophecies do predict some great things for Jon, he's had his fill of tragedy thus far.

[Knight Owl]

Will Jon Snow ever know, GRRM says yes here:

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Center-Stage/George-R-R-Martin-The-Books/m-p/173335#M1386

Thanks for the link!

[Visenya Stark]

Will Jon Snow ever know, GRRM says yes here:

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Center-Stage/George-R-R-Martin-The-Books/m-p/173335#M1386

Thanks!

[BitsOfBrains]

Really? Yall think Jons POVs are boring?

I admit the first book is slow for Jon but after that I think its great.

The sweat hogs defending the wall, all that Mel/Stan/Mance stuff, Tormund, Karstark stuff, WUNWUN?

Mayhaps its just that his supporting cast is the best in the series, but I like Jon and the Jon chapters.

As for everything going his way, I can only think of one thing better than being elected lord commander of the nights watch.

Not being in the nights watch.

[Knight Owl]

Really? Yall think Jons POVs are boring?

I admit the first book is slow for Jon but after that I think its great.

The sweat hogs defending the wall, all that Mel/Stan/Mance stuff, Tormund, Karstark stuff, WUNWUN?

Mayhaps its just that his supporting cast is the best in the series, but I like Jon and the Jon chapters.

As for everything going his way, I can only think of one thing better than being elected lord commander of the nights watch.

Not being in the nights watch.

Agreed, Nights Watch wouldn't be my dream assignment. Jon simply had nowhere else to go. Ned was beside himself about allowing Jon to go, but Cat didn't really leave him with many choices. The Wall itself lacked overall action for a while, especially earlier in the series, but that's not Jon's fault as a character. As the series has progressed, things have become more lively, and we've seen the introduction of numerous supporting characters that help flesh out different facets of Jon. From his disdain for Rattleshirt, to his love of Ygritte, and his fondness of Tormund. I would call Jon many things, but in my view, boring is not one of them.

[Ser Eric]

Google "plot armor" and you'll see that the top two entries are the Urban Dictionary and TV Tropes and Idioms (i.e., two reference sites). The third entry is guess what, this forum, and with multiple threads.

In other words, the primary usage of the term "plot armor" in the English language is apparently to criticize ASOIAF characters you don't like on this forum.

As a guy with a grad-school literary degree, I can tell you that the term does not appear in serious literary criticism, nor should it. It's a lazy person's way of avoiding the serious analysis of whether events are realistic or serve the fiction.

Bingo.

[TalalOfDorne]

As other posters have already pointed out, hes not hated. If anything, he's one of the most popular characters on the board.

Personally, I dont hate or like him. He just isnt interesting to me, and not necessarily from the lack of moral ambiguity of his character. Sansa and Sam are just as "pure", but I like them more.

[sj4iy]

Really? Yall think Jons POVs are boring?

I admit the first book is slow for Jon but after that I think its great.

The sweat hogs defending the wall, all that Mel/Stan/Mance stuff, Tormund, Karstark stuff, WUNWUN?

Mayhaps its just that his supporting cast is the best in the series, but I like Jon and the Jon chapters.

As for everything going his way, I can only think of one thing better than being elected lord commander of the nights watch.

Not being in the nights watch.

Agreed. I think that's the natural next step to take with his character...he's achieved everything he possibly can in the Night's Watch. Now the only way to keep his character from stagnating is to get him OUT of the Night's Watch and see how he deals with that.