fear2433 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Note: I am NOT discussing who Jons parents are. But why is it even relevent?He took an oath to live and die at the wall. He left his family and swore to father no children.So why is Jon snows parentage so important?It wont change the plot of the book in anyway I think..Your opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Because Jon's identity is a big part of his character. His dreams about Winterfell and him not being a Stark show why its relevant. It can have plot implications, but there are personal ones that seem to fly over critics' heads. Do Jon's vows automatically wash away his very real need for family identity and closure on who his mother is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aderyn Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 It is relevant because GRRM has made it relevant. And yes, it will influence the plot and the events because when Jon finds it out he'll be faced with an identity crisis at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missionary Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 A lot of people have gotten into a bare bones plot mentality where if it isn't relevant to the overall plot then it doesn't matter. I disagree, It would be nice to know who Jon's parents actually are, even if it has no plot relevance whatsoever just because it would be nice to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fear2433 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Yes I agree he may face an identity crisis. But isnt he an honourable man?Will he abandon his vows and fight for the iron throne?Probably not.I think GRRM wanted it to be a big mystery, but did not expect the fans to find out anytime soon. Anyway what use? He will have no successors nor will he accept family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Yes I agree he may face an identity crisis. But isnt he an honourable man?Will he abandon his vows and fight for the iron throne?Probably not.I think GRRM wanted it to be a big mystery, but did not expect the fans to find out anytime soon. Anyway what use? He will have no successors nor will he accept family. What does honor have to do with my point about his identity? It could very well be a big factor in his later journey, whether as one of the prophecized figures or a king, but first and foremost the effect is going to be personal. He's going to have a lot of thinking and emotions to sort out once it happens. Drop in the planned and possibly scrapped Arya romance, and the concept can definitley work without being a big plot mover. But it can be both, or it can actually be neither. It's GRRM's story and if he says its relevant then it's relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce's Mum Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Relevant for the character =|= relevant for the whole country. And both can be "the plot", depending on what you're interested in.For Jon as a person, yes, it's relevant to know who his parents are, as was explained in all the other posts up there.But that doesn't mean that he would break his vows over it and try anything based on his DNA, whatever it might be (cue turning down Winterfell). These are two completely different concepts - especially since the latter would be almost impossible to back up with enough evidence. It might be easy to convince Jon that R+L=J or whatever by having him talk to Reed and show him some sword or harp or whatever. But convincing a whole country in a time when letterpress isn't yet invented, let alone paternity tests? So not happening. So yes, I totally agree with you that for the Iron Throne it doesn't matter who Jon's parents are (just like I don't think it matters whether or not Aegon is real. As long as the public thinks he is real, that's all that counts. And they will never think Jon is "real"). But that doesn't mean it's not important for the series as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah.jenice Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I just can't see all of these hints and clues and misinformation on Jon's mother have been for nothing. I don't care if Jon never tells anyone but just finds out himself somehow. I would just really like an answer. And obviously if he is AAR/TPTWP, R+L=J would play into that, so it would be relevant to the whole prophecy plot we've been reading about since the beginning of the second book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonking Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 If they beat the others, the Nightwatch becomes obsolete and so are the oaths.But more important than a possible claim on the IT is the significance of bloodlines in the world grrm created. Being of 'ice' and 'fire' should be considered a big deal in a book series named ASoIaF, plus there is the dragonrider thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Led Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 If they beat the others, the Nightwatch becomes obsolete and so are the oaths.. Yeah, the Night's Watch being disbanded is the only way I could see Jon agreeing to "abandon" them if he has a claim somewhere. And then only if the threat is gone. Else he'd probably try to create a new one himself or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 It was relevant in the original synopsis because the revelation of Jon's true parents allowed him to consummate his relationship with his 'sister'.Since that story line has been dropped, there is currently no reason to suppose that it has any relevance at all - other than insofar that it remains a mystery and therefore we might suppose it may have some relevance in one of the later books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Dragons Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Yes I agree he may face an identity crisis. But isnt he an honourable man?Will he abandon his vows and fight for the iron throne?Probably not.I think GRRM wanted it to be a big mystery, but did not expect the fans to find out anytime soon. Anyway what use? He will have no successors nor will he accept family. Well, one could argue that if Jon dies and is reborn, he'd no longer be tied to the NW. Finding out he has a claim to the Iron Throne if he is a Targ (I think he is) would impact the novel greatly. The country is torn, he'd be someone the people would back up to be king. Or, another scenario, Targ or not- the North would definitely rally for him. He could get Winterfell back up and running. Finding out he is legitimate/has a legitimate claim could be a game changer. I think that's why he rejected Stannis' offer. He didn't want to take away what he felt was Bran/Rickon's birthrights. Things could go differently if he didn't look at himself as a bastard anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sielk Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 When Robb decided to legitimize Jon and declare him the heir to the north Jon would have needed to break his oath too. So why not doing this when he finds out that he is the true heir of the Targaryens?However I also see a problem with convincing all people in Westeros of his paternity. Unlike Aegon (whether he is real or not) Jon doesn't have valyrian looks. It would be very difficult to convince anyone that he is the son of Rhaegar. And even if he manages that there is still the question of legitimacy. Apart from all this I would like to see him on the throne. He would certainly make a far better king than all other claimants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Dragons Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 It was relevant in the original synopsis because the revelation of Jon's true parents allowed him to consummate his relationship with his 'sister'.Since that story line has been dropped, there is currently no reason to suppose that it has any relevance at all - other than insofar that it remains a mystery and therefore we might suppose it may have some relevance in one of the later books. What do you mean? Did GRRM say Jon & Arya were his original idea then scrapped, or is this an opinion? I'm asking because I don't recall ever reading this as fact, just a romance some fans shipped. R+L=J would still make him and Arya first cousins. I don't claim to know what goes on in GRRM's head, but it always felt like a fraternal love when I read their interactions, not a dropped romance plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireAndBlood. Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 What do you mean? Did GRRM say Jon & Arya were his original idea then scrapped, or is this an opinion? I'm asking because I don't recall ever reading this as fact, just a romance some fans shipped. R+L=J would still make him and Arya first cousins. I don't claim to know what goes on in GRRM's head, but it always felt like a fraternal love when I read their interactions, not a dropped romance plot. GRRM's original outline of the story leaked last month and it showed Jon & Arya developing romantic feelings for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sielk Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Some time ago a letter was published in which was written what GRRM originally planned for ASoIaF, also mentioning a relationship between Arya and Jon. But that was when only three books were planned. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man from Nowhere Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Even if Jons a targ I find it hard to understand how people will believe it unless there's some undeniable evidence. I think it's more important to readers and to Jon himself. Jon would make the best king to me imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Dragons Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 When Robb decided to legitimize Jon and declare him the heir to the north Jon would have needed to break his oath too. So why not doing this when he finds out that he is the true heir of the Targaryens?However I also see a problem with convincing all people in Westeros of his paternity. Unlike Aegon (whether he is real or not) Jon doesn't have valyrian looks. It would be very difficult to convince anyone that he is the son of Rhaegar. And even if he manages that there is still the question of legitimacy.Apart from all this I would like to see him on the throne. He would certainly make a far better king than all other claimants. You make good points. I guess I was trying to say that if Jon were to be in the scenario I wrote about dying & free to leave the NW- or who knows, NW may not want him back now. They were kind of pissed at him. Anyway, if he finds out he's not illegitimate, he may feel differently than just a declaration because he has issues with the whole bastard thing. He gets defensive about it... He'd be so happy to find out he's not one, and it could change his perspective. Plus, as another poster pointed out, the whole Ice & Fire and dragon riding thing probably has something to do with him and Danny, which is very relevant to the series. BTW- thanks all for sharing the bit about the synopsis, I'll look for it online. Its a little disconcerting to know he'll change his outline, though. Maybe he'll change his mind and Jon Snow's parentage will stay a mystery afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sielk Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Maybe he'll change his mind and Jon Snow's parentage will stay a mystery afterall.I hope not. That would be so very frustrating after all the debating about R+L=J and the other theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Dragons Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I hope not. That would be so very frustrating after all the debating about R+L=J and the other theories. There would be a line of fans from New York to New Mexico with torches to burn his house down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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