U.S. Politics: Blame it on Canada!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

It's boring, in other words. 

Roose Goose,

Gosh, I was unaware that the business of governing the US was something that should be judged upon its "entertainment value".  If so quite clearly Herr Trump's extensive reality TV experience would make him most qualified for leading such a government.

[Shryke]

I'm not cherry picking anything.  I've stated that we can't exactly know how attack ad campaigns about Bill will hurt Hillary because it's not the general election and Hillary has never been the Democratic presidential nominee.  I've challenged a poster who no longer wants a part in this discussion on his assertion that millennials don't know anything about monica lewinsky and they won't care and pointed out that the leading Republican candidate has reframed that era as "Hillary loves rapists".  That would be a very different public conversation than what Tracker was suggesting the first gazillion times he brought this up.  

The facts are that Bill as a rapist is being bandied about already, though not yet loudly.  Trump has said that he'll hammer Hillary on this specifically to bring to question her voice for women.  Women who have accused Bill in the past are speaking up again on Twitter.  There has been discussion about the politics of race when comparing the Bills Cosby and Clinton.  This past year the public and media have thoroughly embraced returning a voice to victims of sexual violence.  Rape and sexual assault have been big topics recently and the way it's discussed is changing.  It seems clear to me that there has been a shift.  That people don't care much about Bill the Philanderer doesn't mean they aren't going to care about Bill the Rapist.  

You are still cherry-picking. Because you are saying "No, this will totally be an issue". And then when I pointed to a very recent poll on the issue saying "No, it won't", you suddenly decided it was too far out to know. You are basically trying to dismiss the only real data we have on the issue because it doesn't match your narrative.

Look you can totally believe this will be an issue, but all evidence right now suggests it won't so you are believing that in spite of the evidence now available.

 

[TrackerNeil]

This democratic debate is amazing. Yes, there's some obfuscation, pandering, overtalking, self-aggrandizing, and inflated belief in their own opinions.

 

But it's like a cocktail party with 5 adults vs. the high school "somebody's big brother scored a keg and some bottles of liquor and a case of Boones" the GOP puts forward.

It's hard to have a debate of substance when you belong to a party that cares little or nothing about policy. The GOP has no interest in governing; it wants to rule.

[Wise Fool]

If we do not have the first woman president, we will have President Donald Trump, the richest man to hold the office, and not the first to wear a toupee, and God save us all.

[Bonesy]

Not if you're interested in the details of the conversation.

But if you're the type that likes a good slapfight while dudebro's chase girls from the party by shouting "show us yer tits" and then waking up the next day passed in their own puke/in jail for DUI/another STD, yeah. I guess that'd be boring.

[ThinkerX]

Sanders put forth his Health Care plan just before the debate.  According to some of the pathetically few comments in the articles I have read, Sanders won tonight's debate.  The third contender (what's-his-name) was apparently just there as part of the scenery.  And rumors persist Sanders is gaining in the polls.  So...how does this Trump verses Sanders electoral map thing play out again?  Not saying it's likely, but at this point it's a definite possibility.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/hours-before-debate-sanders-shares-details-of-health-plan-that-would-raise-income-taxes/ar-BBokTAH?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msnclassic

But Sanders would pay for it largely through higher income taxes. Those making more than $250,000 a year would pay a marginal tax rate on that income of 37 percent, up a few percentage points from what they now pay.

Meanwhile, those making more than $10 million a year would pay a new top rate of 52 percent -- significantly more than the current top rate of 39.6 percent.

A shift to Sanders’s “Medicare for all” program also would mean that Americans would pay a 2.2 percent health-care premium, calculated based on their federal income taxes. And employers would pay a new 6.2 percent payroll tax. Economists say payroll taxes are usually passed along to workers.

The plan would also be funded in part by an increase in estate taxes on wealthy Americans, Sanders said.

[Roose Goose]

 

Roose Goose,

Gosh, I was unaware that the business of governing the US was something that should be judged upon its "entertainment value".  If so quite clearly Herr Trump's extensive reality TV experience would make him most qualified for leading such a government.

No need to get holier-than-thou, Ser. I appreciate policy arguments and I also appreciate cutting remarks and verbal slapfights. Especially with Trump, since he makes them an art form. It's possible to admire someone's style independent of their substance

It's hard to have a debate of substance when you belong to a party that cares little or nothing about policy. The GOP has no interest in governing; it wants to rule.

What does "governing" mean here? Enacting the Democratic agenda? Why does this comment not apply equally to Obama's brazen use of executive orders as a form of legislating? 

 

[Paladin of Ice]

I have a question about how privilege works. I never encountered the term in undergrad, so I don't exactly know what its use is in the modern vernacular. I first came across the term when someone was talking about Rachel Dolzel's transracialism thing. It sounded offensive to me, but she apparently had an overwhelming amount of support. So if transracialism is a thing, why does the concept of privilege still exist? The person that feels they lack privilege could simply claim that they are transracial and thereby gain access to the privilege that they lack.

Like I said, I have a very vague notion of how privilege works, since I've never had cause to study it or interact with it.

This is just a very general and rough idea, but the way the privilege is being used in that context essentially means that someone, simply because of who they are and/or how they look, will never have to deal with the same adversity or problems that other people do.

For example, a man may have things to be concerned about when walking down the street at night, but he will never have to worry that someone twice his size and strength will jump out, hit him in the head, rape him, leave him in a dark alley, and then, after he manages to drag himself away for medical care, he'll have to hear about how he should have known better than to be out at night dressed like that.

Or how a well dressed white woman will never have to wonder if the staff in the store is following her around because they want to get a sale, or because they think she's a thief. Meanwhile a black woman in the same clothes may be dealing with someone who thinks that all black people are criminals and the nice clothes are just a pretense designed to make the staff relax so she can throw a bunch of stuff into her bag before walking out.

Or how the experience of someone who grows up looking or sounding like a gay stereotype in a homophobic small town may be impossible to adequately communicate to someone who doesn't look or act that way. For example to the high school jock, old Mrs. Henderson who likes a couple of doors down from him is the nice lady who spoke politely to him and baked a pie for his mother when mom was in the hospital. To the gay guy down the street, she's the mean old witch who spat on him and made him cry when called him homophobic slurs as he walked down the street. One day they have a friendly conversation and the jock refuses to believe such a vile accusation about Mrs. Henderson, because he knows her and knows she's a good person. Therefore as far as the jock can see, the gay guy must be a liar... or our friend the jock just happens to have been lucky to have been born and raised in a way that society approved of and never had to deal with those sorts of problems, through the sheer luck of the accident of birth. He's had the privilege of never having to be in that other place.

Privilege could extends to lots of things: race, wealth, appearance, (lots of studies show that good looking people are much more likely to get jobs they apply for, get rewarded higher grades in class, etc.) gender, sexuality, etc. So, you could study up more on the intricacies of the term if you want, but that's a starting idea as to what people mean when they use it in that particular way. Hope it's been helpful, sorry if it's rambling and half incoherent due to trying to post in a hurry late at night.

[Commodore]

synonymous with Cultural Marxism

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Roose Goose,

Trump scares the shit out of me.  The fact that a significant portion of the American electorate thinks Trump and his ideas are good for America scares me even more.  Now you jump in complaining that a debate focusing on policy and governance is "boring" and I'm forced to again wonder what the hell you think a political debate should really be like?  Should we have the candidates attempt the course from "Wipeout!" or "American Ninja Warrior" to keep your attention?

[Bonesy]

If I question you on this statement Commodore, will you respond?

[Commodore]

If I question you on this statement Commodore, will you respond?

sure, although I would modify to say the two work in conjunction with each other rather than being synonymous

[Roose Goose]

Roose Goose,

Trump scares the shit out of me.  The fact that a significant portion of the American electorate thinks Trump and his ideas are good for America scares me even more.  Now you jump in complaining that a debate focusing on policy and governance is "boring" and I'm forced to again wonder what the hell you think a political debate should really be like?  Should we have the candidates attempt the course from "Wipeout!" or "American Ninja Warrior" to keep your attention?

I might be part of that group that scares you shitless, then. Which ideas scare you? The idea of securing our country's border? The idea that there should be an Islamic immigration moratorium until the terrorism problem dies down? The idea that our foreign policy has been conducted incompetently under both Rs and Ds?

And its not like you guys would give the Republicans credit if they had a more somber, policy-focused debate. You would all just attack the policies, because at the end of the day this is TEAM SPORTS and social signaling for most people.  

[The Reckoner]

Roose Goose,

Trump scares the shit out of me.  The fact that a significant portion of the American electorate thinks Trump and his ideas are good for America scares me even more.  Now you jump in complaining that a debate focusing on policy and governance is "boring" and I'm forced to again wonder what the hell you think a political debate should really be like?  Should we have the candidates attempt the course from "Wipeout!" or "American Ninja Warrior" to keep your attention?

As was I. But, I'm continually told that his high poll numbers mean nothing at this point in the game.

@Paladin - Thank you.

[Bonesy]

"synonymous" was my problem.

[Kalbear]

synonymous with Cultural Marxism

It's also synonymous with religious fascism, economic eschatology, and sociological anarchosyndicalism. 

[Roose Goose]

But, I'm continually told that his high poll numbers mean nothing at this point in the game.

 

So you've been talking to Jeb?

[The Reckoner]

I won't have words with a man that's trying to price gouge me on a guac bowl.

[Kalbear]

As was I. But, I'm continually told that his high poll numbers mean nothing at this point in the game.

@Paladin - Thank you.

That has been historically accurate; high poll numbers nationally do not tend at this stage to correspond to good polling numbers locally or to actual overall support. They tend, at this stage, to correspond well with name recognition and press coverage. As an example, Herman Cain was tops in the national polls in 2012 prior to the Iowa primary. Michelle Bachmann was also tops prior to Iowa, where she came in...6th. Giuliani was a really high national polling candidate who didn't even make it past Florida, and Huckabee was polling well before getting crushed. 

It's quite possible that Trump is a different kettle of fish; many pollsters and polisci wonks have been predicting his demise Any Day Now, and he keeps surviving. Part of that is that the republican noms are currently completely horrible for the most part, but part of it is that Trump is very unusual in a lot of ways. 

[Roose Goose]

I won't have words with a man that's trying to price gouge me on a guac bowl.

The size of an ashtray, I would add...