esilvia2003

Is Brienne lying to Jaime?

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Yes. Sansa is in the vale with Littlefinger. She just came down from the Eyrie to the Gates of the Moon.

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17 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Yes. Sansa is in the vale with Littlefinger. She just came down from the Eyrie to the Gates of the Moon.

Probably its so, but the storyline (Jaime) could be couple of days in front dont you think?

Im not suggesting she is not lying, she is IMO, but what I meant is that Alayne doesnt need to be still at Gates

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On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 10:24 AM, The.Dragon.Prince said:

Probably its so, but the storyline (Jaime) could be couple of days in front dont you think?

Im not suggesting she is not lying, she is IMO, but what I meant is that Alayne doesnt need to be still at Gates

Even without this:

Sansa is still in the Vale in her sample chapter from TWOW

it would still require an awful lot to happen with not a single POV to show it. The Hound would have to flee the Quiet Isle, get close enough to Sansa to snatch her away from Petyr, and then bring her somewhere near the Trident.

Meanwhile, Brienne would have to escape from Lady Stoneheart and the brotherhood after her near-hanging and then meet up with the Hound.

And why would the Hound want Jaime? I don't think the two have spoken the entire series.

I can't conclude this is anything but a ruse to bring Jaime to Lady S, and I'll bet Jaime sees through it before long.

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15 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Even without this:

 

  Hide contents

Sansa is still in the Vale in her sample chapter from TWOW

 

it would still require an awful lot to happen with not a single POV to show it. The Hound would have to flee the Quiet Isle, get close enough to Sansa to snatch her away from Petyr, and then bring her somewhere near the Trident.

Meanwhile, Brienne would have to escape from Lady Stoneheart and the brotherhood after her near-hanging and then meet up with the Hound.

And why would the Hound want Jaime? I don't think the two have spoken the entire series.

I can't conclude this is anything but a ruse to bring Jaime to Lady S, and I'll bet Jaime sees through it before long.

I thought it would be the case (the thing in spoiler tag), but I dont get the situation with Hound. I believed that by the end of ADWD 'Hound' is not the Hound, or is there something I missed?:)

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On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 6:22 AM, The.Dragon.Prince said:

I thought it would be the case (the thing in spoiler tag), but I dont get the situation with Hound. I believed that by the end of ADWD 'Hound' is not the Hound, or is there something I missed?:)

By "the Hound" do you mean Lem, who is wearing the Hound's helm? Or Sandor Clegane?

Brienne would know that Jaime would think she was talking about Sandor, so that right there is a lie. And no, she doesn't have Sansa either. So the whole thing is a lie.

And regarding Sandor's situation, you know what happened at the Quiet Isle, right? 

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The last we saw of Brienne before this, she was given a choice by Lady Stoneheart of either "sword" or "noose." In other words, take up the sword and do Lady Stoneheart's bidding or be hanged. Stoneheart wants Jaime dead for a great many reasons so it seems likely that Brienne is lying to Jaime to lure him into a trap set by the Brotherhood.

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"The girl. I have found her"... Brienne never names Sansa. If Brienne is telling a half-truth rather than an outright lie, then which girl has she found? Not Arya, and not Sansa. So if there is any truth, even a quarter-truth, then WHO has she found? (Other than Catelyn herself...)

"Come alone, or the Hound will kill her" - She also does not name Sandor. And she knows as well as anybody that Sandor is no longer the Hound, having either died or at least put aside his helmet - and, indeed, that the second Hound was Rorge, who committed many atrocities that have been blamed on Sandor, including the slaughter of Saltpans (resulting in the rumours that even the Brotherhood Without Banners had a bounty on Sandor's head): and she has killed Rorge and seen the Hound Helmet taken by Lem Lemoncloak (resulting in the later rumours that the Hound now rides with the BWB).

Edited by JLE

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I think Brienne is not lying, but Martin is being very vague about it. I think Brienne has found the Hound, the real one, and he has told her he has Sansa and he's planning on killing her. There is no way Brienne knows that he wouldn't hurt her.

Also, pretty much everybody calls Sandor "the Hound", so even if she indeed found the real Sandor, she would be calling him that.

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I don't think Brienne would delibrately lead Jaime into a trap, or at least not without some sort of ploy or fight. Sandor is probably dead. Not certainly, but probably. And even if he joined BRB, it's unlikely he would have reached the status where he could make threats and basically command. I agree that it's a trap by Lady Stoneheart, but i think Brienne has some sort of plan to stop them both getting captured.

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On 5/4/2016 at 5:39 AM, JCRB's Honeypot said:

I think Brienne is not lying, but Martin is being very vague about it. I think Brienne has found the Hound, the real one, and he has told her he has Sansa and he's planning on killing her. There is no way Brienne knows that he wouldn't hurt her.

Also, pretty much everybody calls Sandor "the Hound", so even if she indeed found the real Sandor, she would be calling him that.

Okay, this has me racking my brains since I put the last book down TBH and I think it is not outside of the realm of what Martin would do to speak to us in riddles and that Brienne might have found a way of tell a half-truth as prophecies do for instance.  However, I am having a real hard time trying to even fathom what else her words could mean.  Okay someone has suggested the girl might mean someone else and the Hound also someone else but then how is she going to get Pod and the other guy off LSH's clutches?  The whole idea was to save them.

Now the idea of the real Sandor, even in the event that him and Brienne had managed to come upon each other somehow, doesn't make sense to me.  Why would he tell her that story about Sansa?  Why would Brienne even believe he intended to kill her? To what end?  Seems very, very random and George would have to had something a little unlikely happening before, although not impossible (them having met) but I still could not even begin to see what his motivation would be so I am going to go for no to that hypothesis.

The thing is she has chosen to save Pod over protecting Jaime so the confrontation with SH has to happen.  Yet I am absolutely convinced that Jamie's business in this world are no way finished yet so either she sacrifices herself in some kind of combat to save him or both escape alive.  I do gather though that Brienne could be, although out of character for her to lie (but hey it's a journey for us all and we all wise up lol), saying things in a way or even giving Jaime some clues through body language or something for them to formulate a possible plan B, i.e. to save the hostages and escape alive.  

Now, one possible loophole that has crossed my mind is that when Cat was alive when Brienne sworn her sword to her Cat promise "never to ask for something that would bring her - Brienne - dishonor."  Of course whether UnCat is capable or remembering or wishes to remembers these niceties is rather doubtful but hey... mayhaps.

Another fact that appears unconnected but seems a little too coincidental is that Oathkeeper was forged from Ice...  Not sure how this matters but I am kind of convinced that it will.  Also its name... Oaths work both ways and the liege lord/lady has also obligations towards his/her vassals.  I wonder if this means something especially with a Valerian steel sword with that named forged from her dead husband's one...

I look forward to more comments to see if between us we can crack this mystery ;)

 

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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