[SPOILER] "Coldhands" Inentions

[jandslegate]

Benjen conveniently shows up immediately after the White Walkers have raided BR's treehouse. The Children have been killed, Blood Raven is dead, Summer, Hodor; all gone as well. Notice he doesn't show up when he could have truly been useful but only after Bran escapes.  One of the last things BR tells Bran is that the reason he must flee is because he now bares the NK's mark, thus enabling the WW's to break the protective spell. Benjen-Hands kills off a few wights to prove his loyalty to Meera (remember Bran was still entranced at the time). Once Bran regains consciousness, Benjen reveals his identity and tells him what he must do next; return to the Wall...and wait for the Night's King. That should be the last thing someone trying to stop the NK would want to do. What do you guys think? Is Benjen on the up and up? Remember, there's no precedence for how he says he was saved. Likewise, if this was an option, why haven't we seen others saved in this manner? Or do you think 'Benjen' is a tool of the NK being used to lure Bran and his mark toward the wall in order to open up Westeros to his army? 

[MotherofStrife]

I think it's just bad writing and the need to pass on exposition as quickly as possible.

[ummester]

I think the 3ER was driving the Nights King, or at least influencing his actions. That's Bran's job now.

I'm starting to think the Children imprisoned the 3ER in his tree to control the Nights King, because they couldn't - or something.

The way the Nights King was mixed into the dream montage at the start didn't make him feel threatening, not as much as Aerys and the dragons, anyway.

[Nerevanin]

I'd say that Benjen didn't come earlier for a simple reason: he was far from the cave. 3ER called him but Benjen doesn't a valyrian teleporter as Littlefinger has so he had to ride all the way there. And his horse looks like a living creature so he had to be careful not to kill him by the riding.

What is more interesting imo is that COTF did the same thing twice with very different outcomes, or so it seems. Once they use dragonglass to create white walkers, then they do the same thing and create a seemingly Jon-like zombie. How is that possible? That does seem rather suspicious.

[Ser Gareth]

Benjen is Coldhands and therefore wasn't allowed in the cave due to wards.  He also said Bran summoned him which is interesting.

I'm pleased the show has brought him back like this.  GRRM has publically stated that Benjen isn't Coldhands (but he has also said that Catelyn Stark is dead and Lady Stoneheart isn't really Catelyn Stark so......).

If it turns out he means literally, then other than Benjen being imprisoned somewhere and unable to escape I can see no good reason as to why he hasn't shown up already.  Heck, even as Coldhands you'd think he'd ride to the Wall and warn everyone if he had any kind of free will.

[ummester]

Ser Garath - that is a fine and logical point. Benjen couldn't go in the cave coz he's dead - doesn't matter if he's Coldhands or not. White Walker killed him, Children raised him - but he's still dead.

[BulletTooth_Tony]

30 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

I'd say that Benjen didn't come earlier for a simple reason: he was far from the cave. 3ER called him but Benjen doesn't a valyrian teleporter as Littlefinger has so he had to ride all the way there. And his horse looks like a living creature so he had to be careful not to kill him by the riding.

What is more interesting imo is that COTF did the same thing twice with very different outcomes, or so it seems. Once they use dragonglass to create white walkers, then they do the same thing and create a seemingly Jon-like zombie. How is that possible? That does seem rather suspicious.

I'd say he didn't come earlier because he always stayed with the pack of White Walkers, watching from a distance. That, and since he's apparently Coldhands the reveal would've been ruined as we would've recognized him... So they made it through the Haunted Forest without him.

and is the difference that they did it on a dead man?

[ummester]

2 minutes ago, BulletTooth_Tony said:

and is the difference that they did it on a dead man?

This is a good point also.

The Nights King and White Walkers are alive (neverdead, or whatever GRRM originally called them). Benjin was raised from the dead by the Children and now is undead, much like Jon, Beric, Stoneheart if she ever shows up and possibly even the wights (although the wights are raised with 2nd or 3rd generation magic in a more impersonal way).

[Ludo Kressh]

I think Benjen knows Bran has to go the wall no matter what. It's his destiny, his purpose. Besides I doubt they would have Bran wandering around north of the Wall aimlessly just to keep him from going there after building him up as this powerful seer. Bran obviously has importance to the endgame so he has to be where everything is happening and not much is happening north of the Wall anymore.

[Nerevanin]

12 minutes ago, BulletTooth_Tony said:

 

and is the difference that they did it on a dead man?

 

 

5 minutes ago, ummester said:

This is a good point also.

The Nights King and White Walkers are alive (neverdead, or whatever GRRM originally called them). Benjin was raised from the dead by the Children and now is undead, much like Jon, Beric, Stoneheart if she ever shows up and possibly even the wights (although the wights are raised with 2nd or 3rd generation magic in a more impersonal way).

 

And are we so sure that Benjen was dead? I know that I said that they "create a seemingly Jon-like zombie" but I meant it rather in the way that they saved him from being death, if you get what I mean. Benjen says: "A white walker stabbed me in the gut with a sword of ice. Left me there to die. To turn. The Children found me." It's just a speculation of course but I'd say that there were a lot of bodies around, because Benjen says that he lead a group of rangers. Yet the COTF did what they did only with Benjen. The question is why. I'd say that either 3ER sent them for Benjen (whether he was alive or dead) or that Benjen was still alive when the Children came and they took pity on him and saved him byt performing the ritual.

[Ludo Kressh]

Just now, Nerevanin said:

 

 

And are we so sure that Benjen was dead? I know that I said that they "create a seemingly Jon-like zombie" but I meant it rather in the way that they saved him from being death, if you get what I mean. Benjen says: "A white walker stabbed me in the gut with a sword of ice. Left me there to die. To turn. The Children found me." It's just a speculation of course but I'd say that there were a lot of bodies around, because Benjen says that he lead a group of rangers. Yet the COTF did what they did only with Benjen. The question is why. I'd say that either 3ER sent them for Benjen (whether he was alive or dead) or that Benjen was still alive when the Children came and they took pity on him and saved him byt performing the ritual.

Or the 3ER knew Benjen was a Stark and could help Bran in the future. He seemed to know what would happen in the cave and Hodor's death so why couldn't he forsee Benjen helping Bran afterwards. 3ER had the Children save him and sent him a vision that he had to save Bran and guide him to the Wall.

[Nerevanin]

1 minute ago, Ludo Kressh said:

Or the 3ER knew Benjen was a Stark and could help Bran in the future. He seemed to know what would happen in the cave and Hodor's death so why couldn't he forsee Benjen helping Bran afterwards. 3ER had the Children save him and sent him a vision that he had to save Bran and guide him to the Wall.

That's definitely possible as well. It would explain why Children even showed up there, presumably far from the safety of the cave. But it's still hard to say if Benjen was alive when they found him or not (if we care about the theory mentioned in the previous posts that he didn't become a WW because he was dead at the time of the ritual)

[Ludo Kressh]

The way it sounded to me was that he was about to die and change and the Children stopped the change with dragonglass. He said he was stabbed in the gut which, in most instances, isn't an immediately fatal wound.

[House Toad]

If you kill a dead person they can become undead again? Is there any real purpose outside of the plot armor? No wonder it's always winter.

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

5 hours ago, jandslegate said:

Benjen conveniently shows up immediately after the White Walkers have raided BR's treehouse. The Children have been killed, Blood Raven is dead, Summer, Hodor; all gone as well. Notice he doesn't show up when he could have truly been useful but only after Bran escapes.  One of the last things BR tells Bran is that the reason he must flee is because he now bares the NK's mark, thus enabling the WW's to break the protective spell. Benjen-Hands kills off a few wights to prove his loyalty to Meera (remember Bran was still entranced at the time). Once Bran regains consciousness, Benjen reveals his identity and tells him what he must do next; return to the Wall...and wait for the Night's King. That should be the last thing someone trying to stop the NK would want to do. What do you guys think? Is Benjen on the up and up? Remember, there's no precedence for how he says he was saved. Likewise, if this was an option, why haven't we seen others saved in this manner? Or do you think 'Benjen' is a tool of the NK being used to lure Bran and his mark toward the wall in order to open up Westeros to his army? 

Eh , because Benjen is basically the Uber for 3ERs north of the wall. 

3ER ordered him on weirnet but then he arrived a bit late to collect the whole party.

 

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

2 hours ago, MotherofStrife said:

I think it's just bad writing and the need to pass on exposition as quickly as possible.

yeah because Coldhands basically running  a fricking taxi service from the wall to the Weirwood in the books wasn't also convenient. 

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

1 hour ago, ummester said:

I think the 3ER was driving the Nights King, or at least influencing his actions. That's Bran's job now.

I'm starting to think the Children imprisoned the 3ER in his tree to control the Nights King, because they couldn't - or something.

The way the Nights King was mixed into the dream montage at the start didn't make him feel threatening, not as much as Aerys and the dragons, anyway.

you're persistent, I'll give you that. 

3ER and the NK have history, that's for sure. But its more likely duking it out in the Weirnet matrix stylee history

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

27 minutes ago, Ludo Kressh said:

The way it sounded to me was that he was about to die and change and the Children stopped the change with dragonglass. He said he was stabbed in the gut which, in most instances, isn't an immediately fatal wound.

yep. He was "left to turn".

Now that is the REALLY interesting question....

In all we have seen of the Others/White Walkers, in book or show, have we seen any instance of this "wounding" and not outright killing by a Walker? Hell mostly they chop the prey they themselves kill into little pieces...

So stabbing and leaving.  MOST CURIOUS...

Was the walker driven off by the COTF? If not, whats going on?

Is the fact that he was a Stark got something to do with it. I have a feeling it might....

 

[The Ice Wolf of Loki]

Benjen clearly seemed to know the 3ER I think what ever he was doing was just acting on the 3ER orders, he seemed pretty up to speed on things. I'm not sure he is actually undead. His hands looked mostly normal and the blood could have just been from skinning the rabbit, the damage to his face was to areas exposed to the cold. He is taking on Coldhands' role but that doesn't mean he's a wight like Coldhands.

[CrypticWeirwood]

4 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Benjen is Coldhands and therefore wasn't allowed in the cave due to wards.  He also said Bran summoned him which is interesting.

I'm pleased the show has brought him back like this.  GRRM has publically stated that Benjen isn't Coldhands (but he has also said that Catelyn Stark is dead and Lady Stoneheart isn't really Catelyn Stark so......).

Is there some reason why you would not take Martin at his word in this?  There are various ways that he could be telling the exact truth.