EwanStark Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Would he have killed Jaime and Cersei, and Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ice Wolf of Loki Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Killed Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 He would had killed Jaime and Cersei, named the children bastards and sent them either to their grandfather at CR or sent them as wards to other Lords. I believe that he would had been so happy to get rid of Cersei and her family that he will not care about Cersei's bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Of Westeros Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 He would have killed Jaime and Cersei and send the children either to CR or to the Wall (in case of Myrcella to the Silent Sisters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofIce Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Given how crazy he was with the Targaryens, having ordered the death of the children, it is possible that he would order the children to be killed again. This would only be possible if he killed Jaime, Cersei and Tywin first otherwise he would have all of their money and soldiers trying to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 8 minutes ago, KingofIce said: having ordered the death of the children Never happened. Tywin killed the Targ children not Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Catelyn certainly seems to think he would have had Joffrey killed at least, and her opinion on the matter holds some weight. She knows the man and his ways through Neds stories no doubt and also by what she has witnessed herself in Roberts company. So why stop there with Joffrey if all the children are Jaimes? If the wrath was truly on him and he was full of wine or ale as he was always anyway, then its reasonable to assume he would have had the other children killed in his rage also. He most certainly would have Jaime and Cersei executed, and in turn Tywin would have to go to, naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Man Racey Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 14 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Never happened. Tywin killed the Targ children not Robert. Correct, Robert did not order the deaths of the Targ children -- he wasn't upset that it happened but it was not directed by him. To the OP, given that it's Tywin Lannister's family, Robert definitely has to do things by the book (obviously this would be done at the insistence of his Hand and other advisors). Jaime and Cersei would be taken and tried for their crimes, the children are probably sent back to CR or to live with some other Lannister offshoot. Now here's how I see this scenario play out: If the Lannisters are smart about it (which Tywin usually is) they try Cersei first, she'll choose trial by combat and Jaime as her champion (as Queen she would normally be forced to pick from an active member of the KG [which Jaime would not be at this point], but since the Crown is the "plaintiff" I imagine that she is no longer constrained by this requirement). Jaime will face a member of the KG since the crimes are against the Crown, this would likely be Barristan Selmy. I see Jaime winning this trial and Cersei being proclaimed innocent. Now, I'm not sure how the legal system in Westeros works, but it's possible now for Jaime, in his trial, to use Cersie's innocence to claim that no crime was committed at all and therefore is also innocent. This also proclaims that the children are legitimate since Cersei is innocent of wrongdoing so the children must be Robert's. Cersei's trial needs to happen first because if Jaime is tried first and found innocent then the argument could be made that Cersei was just having an affair with someone other than Jaime, but if Cersei is innocent then no affair was ever had at all. End result, Robert still gets assassinated and nothing really changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDemonicStark Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, Red Man Racey said: Correct, Robert did not order the deaths of the Targ children -- he wasn't upset that it happened but it was not directed by him. To the OP, given that it's Tywin Lannister's family, Robert definitely has to do things by the book (obviously this would be done at the insistence of his Hand and other advisors). Jaime and Cersei would be taken and tried for their crimes, the children are probably sent back to CR or to live with some other Lannister offshoot. Now here's how I see this scenario play out: If the Lannisters are smart about it (which Tywin usually is) they try Cersei first, she'll choose trial by combat and Jaime as her champion (as Queen she would normally be forced to pick from an active member of the KG [which Jaime would not be at this point], but since the Crown is the "plaintiff" I imagine that she is no longer constrained by this requirement). Jaime will face a member of the KG since the crimes are against the Crown, this would likely be Barristan Selmy. I see Jaime winning this trial and Cersei being proclaimed innocent. Now, I'm not sure how the legal system in Westeros works, but it's possible now for Jaime, in his trial, to use Cersie's innocence to claim that no crime was committed at all and therefore is also innocent. This also proclaims that the children are legitimate since Cersei is innocent of wrongdoing so the children must be Robert's. Cersei's trial needs to happen first because if Jaime is tried first and found innocent then the argument could be made that Cersei was just having an affair with someone other than Jaime, but if Cersei is innocent then no affair was ever had at all. End result, Robert still gets assassinated and nothing really changed. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Robert himself were to fight against Jaime. That would be a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said: her opinion on the matter holds some weight. Why? She didn't knew Robert. 2 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said: She knows the man and his ways through Neds stories no doubt and also by what she has witnessed herself in Roberts company. Ned was praising Robert and she had to see Robert like 7 or 8 years. 2 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said: then its reasonable to assume he would have had the other children killed in his rage also. No it's not. He had allowed Viserys and Dany to live in Essos and hadn't turned against them until Dany willingly and actively started to attack him. Killing the children wouldn't make sense because they were a proof of their parents' incest. By keeping them alive every blackhaired trueborn child would be a constand reminder about how much vile the Lannisters are to have bastards born of incest. That was Robert would had gotten rid of Cersei and the Lannisters and he wouldn't had killed the evidence which kept him free away from the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Man Racey Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Just now, TheDemonicStark said: Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Robert himself were to fight against Jaime. That would be a fight. That's a good point, he would definitely want to at least. His advisors might be able to talk him out of it and maybe not. If he does fight for himself then I still see Jaime winning, making Cersei and, by proxy, Jaime and the children innocent and legitimate. Only change is Robert's already dead so there's no need to assassinate him and Joffrey still takes the throne as the now affirmed legitimate heir. Stannis now can't send his "bastard letter", but nobody really paid much attention to that anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, TheDemonicStark said: Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Robert himself were to fight against Jaime. That would be a fight. It would had been interesting to see Robert Prime against Jaime. Jaime would had been exterminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 7 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Why? She didn't knew Robert. Ned was praising Robert and she had to see Robert like 7 or 8 years. No it's not. He had allowed Viserys and Dany to live in Essos and hadn't turned against them until Dany willingly and actively started to attack him. Killing the children wouldn't make sense because they were a proof of their parents' incest. By keeping them alive every blackhaired trueborn child would be a constand reminder about how much vile the Lannisters are to have bastards born of incest. That was Robert would had gotten rid of Cersei and the Lannisters and he wouldn't had killed the evidence which kept him free away from the Lannisters. For one, you have no idea how well Catelyn knows Robert. Ned could have told her all about his rages and thirst for revenge so her assumption- I'll rephrase that, it's not an assumption, she flat out states he would kill Joffrey. So her statement is based on what she feels to be true judging by what she knows of the man. Catelyn has spent time with Robert also, he's not complex, he is very easy to figure out and this is what she thinks, not assumes, he will do and I'd lean toward that if I'm honest. When you say he allowed Dany and Viserys to live, this is because they were out of reach. If they were close at hand they would have been murdered instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I think he would have killed them all. Jaime, Cersei, and all the children. He didn't even have a parental relationship with the children where it would be difficult for him to do this. I think the more interesting question is what Tywin would have done in response. In the context of this world no one could blame Robert and he would probably be well within his rights, but Tywin wouldn't just sit back and say "well they broke the law so they got what they deserved." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 11 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said: For one, you have no idea how well Catelyn knows Robert We do know that they had years to see him and she couldn't knew him just by listening some stories. 11 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said: Ned could have told her all about his rages and thirst for revenge so her assumption- I'll rephrase that, it's not an assumption, she flat out states he would kill Joffrey. Yet neither Ned nor Cat has seen Robert in years. Neither of them could knew how much he loathed Cersei and how happy he would had been to get rid of her. 11 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said: So her statement is based on what she feels to be true judging by what she knows of the man. Her statment is based on her own distorted idea about Robert. Heck she didn't even knew the sister or the father who were her family how she could know a man based on some stories? 11 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said: When you say he allowed Dany and Viserys to live, this is because they were out of reach. If they were close at hand they would have been murdered instantly. They used to live on the streets where it would had been way too easy to kill them and he still hadn't killed the. That means that he never wanted to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 26 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: No it's not. He had allowed Viserys and Dany to live in Essos and hadn't turned against them until Dany willingly and actively started to attack him.. I don't know of "allowed" is the term I would use. Yeah he didn't actively pursue them but it's not like he pardoned them (as much as you can "pardon" someone just for being Targaryen). Had they been in KL at the end of the Rebellion or had they still been on Dragonstone when Stannis got there, they more than likely would have been dead. And when did Dany "willingly and actively" attack him. The only thing Dany did was get married and then Robert wanted to kill her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Ned seemed to think there was at least a strong possibility that Robert would have had all of them killed, including the children, hence his warning to Cersei. This is a guy who actually loved and knew Robert, so I'd say his assessment holds some weight. 46 minutes ago, Red Man Racey said: Now here's how I see this scenario play out: If the Lannisters are smart about it (which Tywin usually is) they try Cersei first, she'll choose trial by combat and Jaime as her champion (as Queen she would normally be forced to pick from an active member of the KG [which Jaime would not be at this point], but since the Crown is the "plaintiff" I imagine that she is no longer constrained by this requirement). Jaime will face a member of the KG since the crimes are against the Crown, this would likely be Barristan Selmy. I see Jaime winning this trial and Cersei being proclaimed innocent. Now, I'm not sure how the legal system in Westeros works, but it's possible now for Jaime, in his trial, to use Cersie's innocence to claim that no crime was committed at all and therefore is also innocent. This also proclaims that the children are legitimate since Cersei is innocent of wrongdoing so the children must be Robert's. Cersei's trial needs to happen first because if Jaime is tried first and found innocent then the argument could be made that Cersei was just having an affair with someone other than Jaime, but if Cersei is innocent then no affair was ever had at all. End result, Robert still gets assassinated and nothing really changed. Would Robert even bother going down the route of trial if he was certain? I could see him just having them all killed. 38 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: It would had been interesting to see Robert Prime against Jaime. Jaime would had been exterminated. Depends on the style of combat used. If it was with lances, probably not. We don’t actually know who’s better overall between the two of them. Jaime certainly seems to think he could take Robert even when he was in his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 @Jon's Queen Consort. If we look at the OP, it does indeed state- what do 'you' think Robert would have done. So it's our own opinions and mines is based on every single piece of text I've read on Robert. So we could argue the toss about how well other characters like Cat etc know him in the books all day to no avail. In the end it comes down to how I portray Robert due to what we know of him in the books, and the fact Cat thinks he would kill Joffrey without question, AND the fact Ned urges Cersei to flee WITH the children also shows he thinks they would be in mortal danger just backs up my assumption he would have had them killed. Also, is it seriously your stance that Robert never wanted Dany or Viserys dead? Without wanting to sound nasty etc but I think that's up there with the most ridiculous notions I've ever read on here. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 4 hours ago, The Ice Wolf of Loki said: Killed Jaime. Probably killed both Jamie and Cersie, and probably banished the children from KL. I guess it just depends on how much he loved them as to whether or not he killed them too. I can definitely see him offing Joffery, but it's harder to picture him killing Tommen and Myrcella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said: Probably killed both Jamie and Cersie, and probably banished the children from KL. guess it just depends on how much he loved them. That's the thing. He seemingly has no relationship with the children. That's why I think he wouldn't hesitate to kill them either. I think it would be a little more nuanced if he were actually raising them like Ned raised his children, but since he doesn't have that relationship every one is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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