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Shouldve Taken The Black

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About Shouldve Taken The Black

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    Health and Safety Rep for the Door Guards of Westros

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  1. Shouldve Taken The Black

    Robert's Kingsguard

    Barristan was present at Robert's death. If he could have stopped it he would have. Well, that's your call I guess. It's a judgement call. But there's no surprise that a guy who fought against you doesn't end up as your bodyguard? Surely?
  2. Nailed it, pretty much. Argument over. Lowit.
  3. OI don't think it's naivety to be honest. I think it's a weird dogmatic interpretation of the text used to attack a certain character. For reasons that escape me.
  4. Oh ffs. It was not an act of morality. He did it because it had to be done, because Slynt was actively engaged in undermining his leadership. Morality barely enters into it. Yep, also true. He didn't let Mance carry on carrying on out of a sense of morality towards Mance, but because he hoped Mance would help save his sister from a maniac. Who wouldn't? What do those words mean to you? To me it showed Jon trying to navigate between the words of his vows and the reality that's facing him. Is it more ethical or just to abandon a child to torture and rape because your vows suggest you should be neutral? Or maybe, just MAYBE, life is more complicated than that? That's utilitarianism. A valid philosophy, but not the end word on what morality is. It was and it wasn't. You have to factor in his ability to save the one being concrete, while the others being put in danger being vague. You know, acknowledging nuance and stuff. Like adults do...
  5. This is where it matters. The debate is whether he did the right thing. You can't just say "technically, by the letter of the law he shouldn't have done it", and claim some kind of moral superiority. His duty is to defend the realms of men, and saving his sister from a torturer and a rapist maybe doesn't fall under that remit. But what kind of shit doesn't try to save his sister from that? Let's not take this in isolation, or it may appear disingenuous. Alys wasn't just going into an arranged marriage. Her uncle was forcing her to marry her cousin in order to steal her brother's keep. Let's acknowledge the details please. They matter. Please cite the clause in Westros law? Of course, in usual circumstances, the LC of the NW doesn't just meet out justice to Northern lords. They'll refer the matter to the Stark. It's not normal circumstances. The realm and the North are torn apart by civil war. Some improv is required... Turns out it doesn't. Again, in normal circumstances, yes. In this situation, no. He recognised the dodgy ground he was on, but out of all the claimants to the IT, Stannis is the only one who recognised the danger of the Others. Of course Jon should support him.
  6. Yup. This attitude ignores one of the series' basic premises - that sticking to the letter of the law isn't necessarily the most moral decision. That sometimes moral judgments aren't easy. A lot of this seems to have been off loaded onto Jon recently, but it goes around.
  7. Shouldve Taken The Black

    The Tower of Joy

    Or Aerys just overlooked killing him and he got swept up by Ned at some point.
  8. Nobody ever talks about this because we're not bloody idiots. He didn't just "imprison her male relative", he prevented an abuse, where an uncle would force his teenage child to marry his adult son in order to make claim to his brother's keep. Details matter dude, why ignore them? That's an act of compassion and humanism on Jon's part. Do you disagree? How did he break his vows? Point to the line in the vows that deals with this issue.
  9. Shouldve Taken The Black

    Robert's Kingsguard

    I don't think it's an instant disqualification, but it's surely a factor? The Kingsgard are *meant* to be devoted to the King's safety. Obviously someone who has been trying to kill him for a year may have a question mark written on his application form. Does it instantly disqualify him? No. But he needs other qualities to qualify him (like Barristan did). It probably did. On the other hand, he's a nasty piece of work. That probably counted for something too. Odds are yes, but who knows? People didn't simply follow their LPs in the Rebellion. Many did, some didn't. True. But in the case of a KG candidate, I imagine it's less about their LP's attitude, and more about theirs. Is Tywin's refusal to pick sides in the rehbellion until the very end a good indicator of how Greenfield will react if the King is threatened? I doubt it. He also showed his worth in giving his life in the defence of the High Septon. There's something to that man. You have to weigh it. Yeah, appointing a knight from a house who fought for the other side would give a signal that by-gones are by-gones. But pardoning Barristan and Jaime does that anyway. Appointing people you know will be loyal is surely also a major factor? Yes, sometimes KG appointments will be political considerations, but not solely that. They also need people who can be trusted to do the job. It's plot reasons mate. The Blackfish is Robb's right hand man. He's set up to be so. And who knows how people will turn out? I'm willing to believe that the likes of Trant and Blount weren't scum before they took the white cloak. They were corrupted in time.
  10. Shouldve Taken The Black

    Bolton Nicknames

    Theon teased him about leeches to his face. Life was all uphill for him after that.
  11. Shouldve Taken The Black

    Robert's Kingsguard

    Also (just thought of this), Jorah wasn't a knight at that point. He was knighted following Balon's rebellion.
  12. Shouldve Taken The Black

    Robert's Kingsguard

    Fair enough, but I think they would have to weigh the reliability of the individual. The person having fought against them in the rebellion would be a check in the No column. A fair point, but I think that they would know that Barristan, if he accepted the pardon and agreed to continue serving, would do so honourably. It would all depend on the individual suggested.
  13. Shouldve Taken The Black

    Robert's Kingsguard

    Fought against Robert in the Rebellion Not a knight (and too young I think?) Too young at the time? Don't know if either of them were even born. Certainly too young. All fought for Aerys. Too young.
  14. Shouldve Taken The Black

    Robert's Kingsguard

    Oddly overlooked wasn't he? Plot reasons probably. Beric's what, 22 in GOT? Would have been too young. Plus, he was heir/lord of a major House.
  15. Shouldve Taken The Black

    Robert's Kingsguard

    Corbray also fought for Aerys at Gulltown, then changed sides. That illustrates one of the problems Robert faced - half the decent knights in the Kingdoms fought against him in the Rebellion.
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