ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said: I might give you a hmmm... let's call it cameo (probably as some house sigil) in my in-progress story (which with every script gets longer, soon it'll became a novela on its own). Oh really -- and what 'ravenous' character would that be now, hmmmm....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, ravenous reader said: @Blue Tiger, remember I asked you the question about why the nennymoans are in the hair/on the head specifically, and not anywhere else... What are your thoughts around that? I thought about all those May Day and Midsummer flower wreaths - Patchface mentions summer in his song... And about sacrifices to bring spring... Those skulls around him... But that's probably result of all that Summer vs Winter symbolism I've been working on recently... I've said it's dark story, and indeed, it'll be full of metaphorical (and real) sacrifices... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Oh really -- and what 'ravenous' character would that be now, hmmmm....? I have few characters that already have Odin's raven symbolism, so putting a raven holding anemone in his claws on some sigil in the background shouldn't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said: I have few characters that already have Odin's raven symbolism, so putting a raven holding anemone in his claws on some sigil in the background shouldn't be a problem. I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, LmL said: @ravenous reader how did I do, and what do you think of the comment above about the dragonglass see? 49 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Hi -- I am here! You guys are weaving circles around me and my Stark ravenous broomstick can't keep up with the pace..! Nenny-time-now woud be nice. I poured out my star-heart to you under the see, and plus-one'd your green see with a glass see. I thought for sure that would impress you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: I love it! I'm tempted to have some form of revange... For luring me into that nennymoan man-eater sea... . Now... I'm no GRRM, but I must warn you that my characters often meet rather unfortunate ends - especially when it fits my symbolism and metaphores. But I think I'll manage to withstand that temptation Shame I don't write in English... But I hope that after all my Mythical Astronomy translating experience prose will be easier. Good that I always use English for character names & surnames + nearly always for major locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 25 minutes ago, LmL said: Nenny-time-now woud be nice. I poured out my star-heart to you under the see, and plus-one'd your green see with a glass see. I thought for sure that would impress you. Oh god, this is priceless; now you're begging me for some 'nennytime'..! What happens when the safe word becomes the subject, how will anyone be safe anymore? Your thoughts did impress me -- you would have to bring a dragon(glass) to the party-- it's so enchanting; I don't know quite what to make of it! Sorry I'm a bit behind with writing responses. You are all so absolutely ravenous, my ravenousness is lagging behind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said: I'm tempted to have some form of revange... For luring me into that nennymoan man-eater sea... . Now... I'm no GRRM, but I must warn you that my characters often meet rather unfortunate ends - especially when it fits my symbolism and metaphores. But I think I'll manage to withstand that temptation Shame I don't write in English... But I hope that after all my Mythical Astronomy translating experience prose will be easier. Good that I always use English for character names & surnames + nearly always for major locations. Ha ha -- well, your name is 'Niebieski' and you are a 'Tigris'...so I wouldn't expect anything less but to be savaged darkly! Personal story: I once made the mistake of stroking a tiger...The minute I dared, I could sense the power rippling under my ginger fingertips and immediately felt my error searing itself onto my monkey's brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 5 hours ago, Blue Tiger said: I thought about all those May Day and Midsummer flower wreaths - Patchface mentions summer in his song... And about sacrifices to bring spring... Those skulls around him... But that's probably result of all that Summer vs Winter symbolism I've been working on recently... I've said it's dark story, and indeed, it'll be full of metaphorical (and real) sacrifices... That's really good! I agree that the 'nennymoans' garland/wreath on the head/in the hair is an ominous sign. As you say, it brings to mind someone marked out for sacrifice, and also for greatness. For example, Christ's thorny crown drawing drops of sacred red blood. Or the Holly King's garland of red berries and thorns. The iron throne, crown of the King of Winter, and weirwood crown/thrones can also be thought of in these terms -- all being thorny, spiky, wormy things getting into the brains of those who wear them. From a literary perspective, @Pain killer Jane has pointed out Ophelia's garland of wild flowers, weeds and clinging vines with which (and possibly by which) she drowned in Shakespeare's Hamlet. Wearing the garland is thus associated with death, sacrifice, losing ones mind, hanging, drowning, poisoning and singing (Ophelia was singing as she drowned...so the 'moaning' in the nennymoans reminds me of singing, particularly the 'song of the earth' and the weirwood communication). Quote Enter GERTRUDE GERTRUDE enters. 160 GERTRUDE One woe doth tread upon another’s heel, So fast they follow.—Your sister’s drowned, Laertes. GERTRUDE The bad news just keeps on coming, one disaster after another. Your sister’s drowned, Laertes. LAERTES Drowned? Oh, where? LAERTES Drowned? Oh, where? 165 170 175 GERTRUDE There is a willow grows aslant a brook That shows his hoar leaves in the glassy stream. There with fantastic garlands did she come Of crowflowers, nettles, daisies, and long purples, That liberal shepherds give a grosser name, But our cold maids do “dead men’s fingers” call them. There, on the pendant boughs her coronet weeds Clambering to hang, an envious sliver broke, When down her weedy trophies and herself Fell in the weeping brook. Her clothes spread wide, And mermaid-like a while they bore her up, Which time she chanted snatches of old lauds As one incapable of her own distress, Or like a creature native and indued Unto that element. But long it could not be Till that her garments, heavy with their drink, Pulled the poor wretch from her melodious lay To muddy death. GERTRUDE There’s a willow that leans over the brook, dangling its white leaves over the glassy water. Ophelia made wild wreaths out of those leaves, braiding in crowflowers, thistles, daisies, and the orchises that vulgar shepherds have an obscene name for, but which pure-minded girls call “dead men’s fingers.” Climbing into the tree to hang the wreath of weeds on the hanging branches, she and her flowers fell into the gurgling brook. Her clothes spread out wide in the water, and buoyed her up for a while as she sang bits of old hymns, acting like someone who doesn’t realize the danger she’s in, or like someone completely accustomed to danger. But it was only a matter of time before her clothes, heavy with the water they absorbed, pulled the poor thing out of her song, down into the mud at the bottom of the brook. Shakespeare, 'Hamlet,' Act 4, Scene 7 From Spark notes There is a famous painting by Sir John Everett Millais depicting the scene, except he failed to depict the importance of the flowers in the hair, around the head, and possibly the neck -- only focusing on those in her hands. See here for Symbolism of the flowers in Ophelia's wreath. Finally, I'd like to take the liberty of re-quoting one of the excellent comments on @LmL's website which provides much food for thought ('Greydayne' whoever you are -- great comment!): Quote greydayne DECEMBER 7, 2016 AT 5:00 PM I think that GRRM is using the horns in part as a symbol for antennae and antennas, for communication and possession of the dead etc. Consider the function of the crown in helping to project a monarch’s power, such as the means to martial troops, coupled with the crown attracting advisers to whisper in their ear. The bling factor of crowns causes them to reflect or refract light, metaphors for relaying a signal and/or manipulating it to bedazzle the subservient (as in high septon’s crystal crown). The craftsmanship and expensive metals that go into the making of a crown should put you in mind of an exceedingly expensive computer, studded with flashing lights and cores in place of gems and patterned with wire like a microchip, a circlet with a circuit. I think you may have already mentioned the association with antlers and lightning, fire running along them also symbolises conducting heat/electrons. Catelyn thinks on the queer effect crowns have on the heads beneath them, another indication that the cyber-crown acts like a parasite altering the mind of its host, with the power of the state (Crown) determined by the interplay between the machine and the man. This shows how the zombie phenomenon begins with a human which allows his flesh (in particular brain) to be consumed, setting in motion the disease cycle whereby the undead beget more undead by resurrecting the slain and capturing more candidate horned lords. In relation to the Horned Lords, I think that the same line of thinking applies: the crown is a poisoned gift, like a parasite which may afford certain power coupled with a curse. This can be related to the myth of the Jackalope (Jack rabbit with antelope horns) and Al-mi’raj, which is thought to have arisen from sightings of rabbits afflicted with Shope papilloma virus which causes warty growths which were mistaken for horns. Safe to say lots of body horror involved with becoming a horned lord, think of worms beneath the skin (as in weirwood fusion), coalescing to form the growth. Horns of various animals look worm/wyrm like in many respects: phallic symbolism, coiled like a snake, segmented, antlers are like that of the hydra/snake, many headed and a routinely shed and regenerate as in the heads/skin. This isnt to say that an actual parasite is used to activate the powers of a horned lord, but i think the essence of a foreign organism as in their DNA i component to the horned lord, Im not sure if this is acquired through drinking a blood potion as in the weirwood paste or if it’s inherited, not that blood drinking isn’t already a metaphor for reproduction. Also check out cordyceps fungus, especially on a spider if you want to see a good example of a parasite zombifying its host and turning it into a mouldy statue covered with horn shaped fruits which project spores that perpetuate the cycle. In line with my take on the horns as parasitic, I think one of their main weaknesses is that they open a backdoor for manipulation by a higher being, like how an animal can be steered by lassoing its horns. This means horned lords can be considered like middle management, intermediaries or avatars for a god, which relates back to my point that the antenna can function to relay signals, one ‘overmind’ cant control a whole zombie horde directly, within it must be dispersed a network of overseers to extend the coverage and diversify the commands within the area of influence. One last point: fool’s crown= dunce’s cap, another indication that the horn is drain on sanity/sobriety hope this helps, keep up the good work From: https://lucifermeanslightbringer.com/2016/12/02/king-of-winter-lord-of-corpses/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: That's really good! I agree that the 'nennymoans' garland on the head/in the hair is an ominous sign. As you say, it brings to mind someone marked out for sacrifice, and also for greatness. For example, Christ's thorny crown drawing drops of sacred red blood. Or the Holly King's garland of red berries and thorns. I definitely think the anemone = drowed fire idea is right, and thus a crown of nennymoans / anemones would be like a weirwood / sea dragon crown. 13 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: The iron throne, crown of the King of Winter, and weirwood crown/thrones can also be thought of in these terms -- all being thorny, spiky, wormy things getting into the brains of those who wear them. From a literary perspective, @Pain killer Jane has pointed out Ophelia's garland of wild flowers, weeds and clinging vines with which (and possibly by which) she drowned in Shakespeare's Hamlet. Wearing the garland is thus associated with death, sacrifice, losing ones mind, hanging, drowning, poisoning and singing (Ophelia was singing as she drowned...so the 'moaning' in the nennymoans reminds me of singing, particularly the 'song of the earth,' in particular the weirwood communication). Shakespeare, 'Hamlet,' Act 4, Scene 7 From Spark notes There is a famous painting by Sir John Everett Millais depicting the scene, except he failed to depict the importance of the flowers in the hair, around the head, and possibly the neck -- only focusing on those in her hands. See here for Symbolism of the flowers in Ophelia's wreath. Finally, I'd like to take the liberty of re-quoting one of the excellent comments on @LmL's website which provides much food for thought ('Greydayne' whoever you are -- great comment!): From: https://lucifermeanslightbringer.com/2016/12/02/king-of-winter-lord-of-corpses/ That would @The Grey Dayne, although he is not on here much. We chat on skype from time to time - he has a tone of ideas and like you he is sometimes out ahead of me and it takes me a minute to catch up. This was a good comment and I remember discussing it with him as well. He has some interesting ideas about that mushroom growing from Bloodraven's cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, LmL said: He has some interesting ideas about that mushroom growing from Bloodraven's cheek. The 100 different species of mushroom in the cave are bound to include a few 'magic' ones , wouldn't you say? GRRM is such a hippie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, ravenous reader said: The 100 different species of mushroom in the cave are bound to include a few 'magic' ones , wouldn't you say? GRRM is such a hippie! WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MY NENNYMOANING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, LmL said: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MY NENNYMOANING You are demanding! A new interpretation of 'moaning'. Give me time to think on it -- the sea as glass is fascinating. I suspect it has something to do with 'ice magicking' -- the 'frozen fire' thing, and this passage: Quote A Clash of Kings - Jon III He woke to the sight of his own breath misting in the cold morning air. When he moved, his bones ached. Ghost was gone, the fire burnt out. Jon reached to pull aside the cloak he'd hung over the rock, and found it stiff and frozen. He crept beneath it and stood up in a forest turned to crystal. Resurrection. Quote The pale pink light of dawn sparkled on branch and leaf and stone. Every blade of grass was carved from emerald, every drip of water turned to diamond. Flowers and mushrooms alike wore coats of glass. Even the mud puddles had a bright brown sheen. Through the shimmering greenery, the black tents of his brothers were encased in a fine glaze of ice. So there is magic beyond the Wall after all. He found himself thinking of his sisters, perhaps because he'd dreamed of them last night. Sansa would call this an enchantment, and tears would fill her eyes at the wonder of it, but Arya would run out laughing and shouting, wanting to touch it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Oh -- and you're right -- Dawn has a pink sheen (in the red category)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Oh -- and you're right -- Dawn has a pink sheen (in the red category)! No, that's not me who says that. Dawn is more often cold than anything else, and it comes in a variety of colors. It is sunset which is consistently associated with red, blood, and flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, LmL said: @Durran Durrandon, check out the excerpt from Mythology in AGOT, by Valerie Frankel: No, that's not me who says that. Dawn is more often cold than anything else, and it comes in a variety of colors. It is sunset which is consistently associated with red, blood, and flame. I disagree. Here is a red dragon sunrise associated with Bran for you: Quote A Game of Thrones - Eddard V Arya bit her lip. "What will Bran do when he's of age?" Ned knelt beside her. "He has years to find that answer, Arya. For now, it is enough to know that he will live." The night the bird had come from Winterfell, Eddard Stark had taken the girls to the castle godswood, an acre of elm and alder and black cottonwood overlooking the river. The heart tree there was a great oak, its ancient limbs overgrown with smokeberry vines; they knelt before it to offer their thanksgiving, as if it had been a weirwood. Sansa drifted to sleep as the moon rose, Arya several hours later, curling up in the grass under Ned's cloak. All through the dark hours he kept his vigil alone. When dawn broke over the city, the dark red blooms of dragon's breath surrounded the girls where they lay. "I dreamed of Bran," Sansa had whispered to him. "I saw him smiling." Anyway, I thought you said 'Dawn' could be the original 'Ice', so it might be a dark sword emitting a red light...the whole 'mourning' (brothers in black) bringing the 'morning' pun of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Oh, and note the 'smokeberry vines'...that's smoke + blood. Fire and blood. Black and red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: You are demanding! A new interpretation of 'moaning'. Give me time to think on it -- the sea as glass is fascinating. I suspect it has something to do with 'ice magicking' -- the 'frozen fire' thing, and this passage: Resurrection. I interpret this scene in a few ways. One, as a clue that Dawn is a sword of ice magic from the north - the original Ice of House Stark in other words. But dragonglass is something different. I'm not sure if a burnt out fire could be symbolic of dragonglass... maybe, I've interpreted drowned fire as fire cooled into stone or obsidian. There's also a thing about Jon breaking ice and melting ice (with his piss) after he is done talking with Gilly about the Others. He snaps the ice off of his black cloak and then picks up Longclaw, almost as if it was apiece of black ice. Honestly there is a lot going on in this scene and I need to look at it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiSt Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Not really being into the nennymoans, and not knowing if it's been discussed earlier, anemones do look quite a bit like crowns, which would explain their placement. Sansa wears poison in her hairnet, and is set up to inherit Winterfell with enough dead brothers, is heir to casterly rock through Tyrion? Under the sea, seems to refer to "in winter" as well as "in death" (logical with the two being symbolically the same), so part of these quotes may refer to things that are done in winter (the long night in particular) with cannibalism, blood sacrifice etc following in the wake of famine. "Under the sea, the crows are white as snow." White ravens symbolize winter, and with inversions you have the "white raven" calling the "crow white". As well as dead Jon, as mentioned above. Don't know where this is going... Down the rabbit hole, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: I disagree. Here is a red dragon sunrise associated with Bran for you: Anyway, I thought you said 'Dawn' could be the original 'Ice', so it might be a dark sword emitting a red light...the whole 'mourning' (brothers in black) bringing the 'morning' pun of yours. Dawn = original Ice yes, but not the red sword of Azor Ahai, no. That would be the black one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.