Stonewalker

Did Jaehaerys I kill his own nieces?

15 posts in this topic

Whatever happened to Aegon's (son of Aenys) and his sister-wife Rhaena's daughters Aerea and Rhalla? After killing Aegon, Maegor the Cruel took Rhaena as his wife and named Aerea his heir. But followings Maegor's death, Jaehaerys I ascended to the throne. Now this was long before it was decided no woman (or male descendent of a woman) could sit on the Iron Throne. In fact, Aegon only married Rhaena (his elder sister) to settle the issue of succession. So were the daughters passed over? I don't think so. I submit the theory that Jaehaerys I (perhaps at the behest of his mother, Alyssa Velaryon) has his nieces killed in order to secure the Iron Throne. After all, Jaehaerys and Alyssa do have a bit of a history of letting their family die. For example, when Visenya died, Alyssa, Jaehaerys, and Alysanne fled from the Red Keep, leaving Viserys Targaryen behind. Viserys was Aenys second son and ahead of Jaehaerys in the line of succession. After his family left him behind, he was tortured by Maegor for nine days until he died. In hopes of getting Alyssa to return, Maegor had Viserys' body left setting in the courtyard of the Red Keep for a fortnight. Alyssa never claimed his corpse. That's cold. Would it really be so crazy that Alyssa later talked Jaehaerys into killing his own nieces? It also seems very fitting that the king known as "The Wise" and widely regarded as the greatest Targaryen king could actually be guilty of such a horrible crime.

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That doesn't make any sense. For one, Rhaena, Jaehaerys I's own sister, stole Blackfyre from her uncle-husband Maegor, fled the Red Keep on her dragon Dreamfyre, and handed that weapon and her support to Jaehaerys I, the pretender Maegor's enemies had rallied behind the replace him.

Rhaena didn't want Aerea to succeed Maegor, apparently, and neither did Alyssa Velaryon or anyone in the royal family. We don't know what happened to the twins but there are hints that they did live and have children of their own. At the Great Council of 101 AC there were two main claimants - Laenor Velaryon and Prince Viserys Targaryen - but also nine lesser claimants about whom we don't know anything. Some of those might have been Targaryen bastards or the descendants of Targaryen bastards fathered by Aenys I or Jaehaerys I's children (and perhaps even Jaehaerys I himself, perhaps during the First Quarrel) but the only way there could be any legitimate Targaryen descendants at this point would have to be through Aerea, Rhalla, or Rhaena (if she took a third husband after Maegor). There is a small chance that there were some very distant Targaryen cousins left from before the Conquest but any line that branched off before Aegon and his sister-wives most likely would not be seen as an heir of Aegon and his successors.

Another idea is that either Aerea or Rhalla is the mother of Corlys Velaryon based on the fact that Laenor and Laena Velaryon had Targaryen blood on both sides (although it is more likely that Rhaena Targaryen is his mother, taking a Velaryon as her third husband).

In any case, the idea that Aerea and Rhalla were killed by Jaehaerys I (or anyone, really) is very unlikely. Maegor might have killed the twins if Rhaena didn't take them with her - which we should assume she did. If she can steal Blackfyre she most likely also could get access to her children.

You also mistaken about a couple of things. Prince Aegon married his sister Rhaena because his father King Aenys wanted to continue the incest tradition. It had nothing to do with the succession. Visenya's idea to betroth an infant Rhaena to her son Maegor had to do with the succession.

Alyssa Velaryon and her younger children did not flee from the Red Keep but from Dragonstone after the death of Visenya. Prince Viserys was in the Red Keep as Maegor's squire (and, most likely, hostage). Now, we don't know why Alyssa and the children fled but a very likely reason is that Visenya decided to take charge of Aenys' widow and her step-grandchildren. She may have been very be both their gaoler and their savior, preventing Maegor from killing them. If that was the case they could do little else but to flee to save their lives. The way Viserys was treated illustrates very much that Maegor the Cruel knew no mercy.

And in relation to the claims of the twins you have to keep in mind that Prince Aegon never was king. The kings are the Conqueror, Aenys I, Maegor the Cruel, and Jaehaerys I. Jaehaerys was the son of a king, Aerea and Rhalla merely the granddaughters of a king. And note that Jaehaerys I became king as the figurehead of the anti-Maegor-movement. The people wanted Maegor gone, they did not care about any line of succession back then. Aerea and Rhalla were very young children and under Maegor's control. Jaehaerys was the material to challenge Maegor's claim, not those girls.

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I don't think that he killed them. He was just an usurper not a murderer.

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Isn't there a taboo against kinslaying?

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Posted (edited)

44 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Isn't there a taboo against kinslaying?

Did the Targs ever cared about the Westerosi laws and traditions?

Edited by The Doctor's Consort

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Well, after Aegon I no one else tried polygamy.

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Posted (edited)

32 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well, after Aegon I no one else tried polygamy.

That is wrong, Maegor was polygamous. Also not to nitpick but polygamy was never illegal, incest on the other hand was and the Targs didn’t care.

Edited by The Doctor's Consort

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On 18.6.2017 at 1:00 AM, The Doctor's Consort said:

That is wrong, Maegor was polygamous. Also not to nitpick but polygamy was never illegal, incest on the other hand was and the Targs didn’t care.

That is nonsense, polygamy is forbidden by the scriptures of the Faith.

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It doesn't fit with Jaehaerys's politics to kill his nieces. Rhaena seemed to accept Jaehaerys's claim to the Throne by giving him Blackfyre and leaving her post as Queen Consort.

I believe that one of her daughters was given to the Faith to strenghten ties with the High Septon and the second married into house Velaryon. 

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14 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

It doesn't fit with Jaehaerys's politics to kill his nieces. Rhaena seemed to accept Jaehaerys's claim to the Throne by giving him Blackfyre and leaving her post as Queen Consort.

I believe that one of her daughters was given to the Faith to strenghten ties with the High Septon and the second married into house Velaryon. 

And for some reason Yandel doesn't see fit to write it down.

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1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

And for some reason Yandel doesn't see fit to write it down.

there are many people's fates that yandel and other maesters didn't write down.that doesn't mean they were killed.

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Why? Because they weren't important?

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On 5.7.2017 at 4:50 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Why? Because they weren't important?

Exactly, women aren't important in this world, not even royal women. Do we know what happened to Alyssa Velaryon (most likely the most important woman of the 1st century after Aegon's sister-wives and her daughter Alysanne)? What about Princess Alyssa Targaryen, the eldest surviving child of Jaehaerys I and mother of Viserys I, Daemon, and Aegon? Or Alicent Hightower, whose eventual fate isn't even mentioned in TWoIaF? Baela and Rhaena Targaryen, crucial figures in the Dance and its aftermath disappear into obscurity, too. What about the great queens of the later days - Mariah Martell and Betha Blackwood? We don't know how long they lived, what they did, or when/how they died? Hell, we don't even know what happened to Queen Shaera Targaryen, Aerys II's mother, who survived Summerhall. Did she survived the sickly Jaehaerys II, too? If so, when exactly during the reign of his son did she die, and of what causes? What role did she play at her son's court?

And what about the royal children we have no idea about - the mysterious Prince Aegon, the simple Princess Vaella, little Prince Maegor? Why don't we know what happened to them?

There are many royal women and children that are more important than Aerea and Rhalla Targaryen and we also don't know anything about them.

And this is not surprising considering that this is a book written by a man for a male audience, covering the deeds of the important men of the Seven Kingdoms. Women are only mentioned when they were really important for history, but the book does not tell there story. Even Good Queen Alysanne is just a footnote in the brief overview of her brother-husband's reign despite the fact that she was most definitely much more than a footnote.

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Not a bad notion. Jaehaerys is a Tyrion parallel who is a Richard III parallel. Nephews and/or nieces always getting in the way.

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4 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Not a bad notion. Jaehaerys is a Tyrion parallel who is a Richard III parallel. Nephews and/or nieces always getting in the way.

The difference there is that there is no hint whatsoever that these nieces got in the way. As far as we know nobody ever thought any of them should have been the Queen Regnant. Just as nobody seems to have thought Prince Maegor - the son of Aerion Brightflame - should be king after Aegon V was crowned.

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