snow is the man

Jon is not a fire wight.

12 posts in this topic

One of the theorie's I have heard lately was that jon is actually dead. First of all beric in the show has blood running through him so he isn't a wight. And jon has not mentioned or done anything to show that he is different in those ways. With the exception of his wounds when he first comes back nothing looked strange. And him being so "sullen" as brieen put it seems to be more about being betrayed and he wasn't that much different at the end of season 5 before he died. I just think it would have been mentioned by now that something was off. And him telling mel not to bring him back again seemed more like it was about him being tired of fighting then anything else. I just think that in the show this idea seems to have passed since it is to late to bring it up. Anyone else think this

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It's just some people interpreting GRRM's recent words in a certain way and then applying it to the extreme. Beric has died many times over and each time he is less complete of a living human and thus each time closer to a sort of fire 'wight', because he was resurrected by the lord of light. Jon has probably been affected by the resurrection in a physical way, but to a much lesser degree, so no, I doubt he is a type of lifeless fire wight at this point. 

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He's always been pretty boring most of the time, but he was actually fantastic this week making Sansa shut her fat mouth and let him rule when she was trying to humiliate him in front of all his lords.

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On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:54 PM, Eddard Scissorhands said:

It's just some people interpreting GRRM's recent words in a certain way and then applying it to the extreme. Beric has died many times over and each time he is less complete of a living human and thus each time closer to a sort of fire 'wight', because he was resurrected by the lord of light. Jon has probably been affected by the resurrection in a physical way, but to a much lesser degree, so no, I doubt he is a type of lifeless fire wight at this point. 

He is not "sort of"  a fire wight.  He IS a fire wight. lol  GRRM said as much.  There isn't much to interpret when GRRM says this:

"Poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing..."

That statement is pretty straight forward.  The fact that he said this about Beric is why people are saying the same about Jon.  Now, GRRM was of course talking about the books.  The show may choose not to go that far down the rabbit hole and just leave them as resurrected people that live and breathe, even though Beric on the show specifically mentions that every time he is brought back there is a little less of him gone.  So yeah, the show may not come out and call them fire wights, but the guy writing the books that said show is based off of says they are...

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But isn't that quote about the books?  

In the show, Beric is alive maybe different psychologically slightly but not bc of the magic. 

And in the books, bc Jon wargs Ghost, someone said he might be preserved in a different way. 

So I'm both cases Jon isn't necessarily a fire wight even if Beric is. 

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On 19-7-2017 at 2:25 PM, Jaehaerys Stark said:

He is not "sort of"  a fire wight.  He IS a fire wight. lol  GRRM said as much.  There isn't much to interpret when GRRM says this:

"Poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing..."

That statement is pretty straight forward.  The fact that he said this about Beric is why people are saying the same about Jon.  Now, GRRM was of course talking about the books.  The show may choose not to go that far down the rabbit hole and just leave them as resurrected people that live and breathe, even though Beric on the show specifically mentions that every time he is brought back there is a little less of him gone.  So yeah, the show may not come out and call them fire wights, but the guy writing the books that said show is based off of says they are...

You are right, in the broadest sense of definition and yes GRRM did say that about Beric. What I meant to convey is that in the case of fire wights as far as examples go, to compare it to the condition of ice wights, there seem to be different levels of the remaining sense of self (the latter also according to GRRM), apparently depending on the amount of times the person was resurrected, how long the body has been dead and decomposing before being resurrected, etc. 

Edited by Eddard Scissorhands

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8 hours ago, Raeslewolhn said:

But isn't that quote about the books?  

In the show, Beric is alive maybe different psychologically slightly but not bc of the magic. 

And in the books, bc Jon wargs Ghost, someone said he might be preserved in a different way. 

So I'm both cases Jon isn't necessarily a fire wight even if Beric is. 

Re-read my entire post friend...

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14 minutes ago, Eddard Scissorhands said:

You are right, in the broadest sense of definition and yes GRRM did say that about Beric. What I meant to convey is that in the case of fire wights as far as examples go, to compare it to the condition of ice wights, there seem to be different levels of the remaining sense of self (the latter also according to GRRM), apparently depending on the amount of times the person was resurrected, how long the body has been dead and decomposing before being resurrected, etc. 

I agree.  There are varying levels to the degree of decomposition, for lack of a better term.  As you mentioned, it can very based upon when one is brought back, how many times, etc.  Not to mention, this "fire wight' concept is very new to us now.  We don't know the intricacies of how it all works.  Obviously ice wights are zombie like and submissive to their creator from the jump, regardless of how long they were dead prior to resurrection, i.e. Hardhomme.  Fire wights are obviously a great deal more functional, even if they were dead for awhile (Lady Stoneheart as an example). But we don't know if they progressively get worse off as time goes on.  GRRM sure seemed to imply that they do.  But he's talking strictly about the book's fire wights.  I am guessing the show doesn't even go as far as to call Beric and Jon fire wights at any point...

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4 hours ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

Re-read my entire post friend...

You definitely say it clearly. I'm agreeing with most posts here, including yours, I just made a succinct post chiming in. IMHO I don't think they'll go that far down the rabbit hole. I think, bc Beric said that, it's clear it's just a little change each time. 

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21 minutes ago, Raeslewolhn said:

You definitely say it clearly. I'm agreeing with most posts here, including yours, I just made a succinct post chiming in. IMHO I don't think they'll go that far down the rabbit hole. I think, bc Beric said that, it's clear it's just a little change each time. 

That was my thought too.  It was addressed on the show by Beric to the extent that the show was going to focus on it, which was in passing. The only time I could see it coming up is if part of the end game for the show involves Jon taking over as the new NK, which I don't see happening...

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1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

That was my thought too.  It was addressed on the show by Beric to the extent that the show was going to focus on it, which was in passing. The only time I could see it coming up is if part of the end game for the show involves Jon taking over as the new NK, which I don't see happening...

Def. And fire wight and ice wight are different things. That wouldn't work anyway. The effects of his resurrection seem to be more about validating his specialness and/or showing how magic works, depends on what happens later.

Also, I just rewatched s3e9 where whatshisfaceWildling wargs into his raven when Jon kills him. The only missing piece to that wargs preservation thing working for Jon would be no indication in the show that he can warg into Ghost.

Either way though, there's no indication he's not REALLY him, maybe changed by the experience of it though. I agree.

Also, on a similar note, he was burned by fire in S2 or S3 at CB. He seems to have no magic....

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