Nerevanin Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Cersei seems to be well informed about what happened in the Twins and that Daenerys is coming. Yet when she talks about her enemies and allies, she doesn't mention Littlefinger, even though the Vale army isn't a forgettable one. Let's not forget that as far as in Season 5 she considered him a loyal servant of the Crown / House Lannister and she even made a deal with him that she'll make him the Warden of the North if he defeats the Boltons. He did it, thanks to him Jon and co. won over Ramsay. However what does Cersei know about Littlefinger's whereabouts etc now? Does she know that he joined Jon (aka another traitor) againsted Boltons? It's imo improbable that no one would notice the Vale knights in the North and yet Cersei knows that Jon was named KITN. Does she think that Jon took Winterfell on his own and that now LF plans to take it from him? Or is it just a plothole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Me Roar!! Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Im still hoping that the conversation between Littlefinger and Cersei from season 5 about making Littlefinger the Warden of the North if he takes Winterfell is not going to be forgotten. Which is why Cersei doesnt mention him, and it'd fill the plothole you pointed out nicely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 She also didn't mention Varys and I suppose his prominence at Dany's council would make it obvious for her to know about him too. Simply, she doesn't mention him because she doesn't mention him. No plot hole, just not mentioning EVERY SINGLE PERSON they consider enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickStark2494 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Either a plot hole, or she now knows LF is not her friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Walker Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I was actually surprised that Cersei sent a raven to Jon rather sending word to Littlefinger. 4 hours ago, Risto said: She also didn't mention Varys and I suppose his prominence at Dany's council would make it obvious for her to know about him too. Simply, she doesn't mention him because she doesn't mention him. No plot hole, just not mentioning EVERY SINGLE PERSON they consider enemy. Not really. They already assumed that Tyrion escaped with Varys. Which implies they both joined Dany. Either way, Varys doesn't have an army and his little birds have switched their allegiance to Qyburn. Littlefinger, on the other hand, has the entire Vale army and is also the Lord of Harrenhal. Makes no sense that Cersei and Jaime didn't even put him in the list of allies or enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 8 hours ago, Ice Walker said: Not really. They already assumed that Tyrion escaped with Varys. Which implies they both joined Dany. Either way, Varys doesn't have an army and his little birds have switched their allegiance to Qyburn. Littlefinger, on the other hand, has the entire Vale army and is also the Lord of Harrenhal. Makes no sense that Cersei and Jaime didn't even put him in the list of allies or enemies. It could be something, it could be nothing... With writing such as it is, everything can be either superimportant or simply irrelevant. I chose to think this one is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knight of Flours Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 You'd think with that new war-map of hers, the subject of the other realms, including the Vale and Littlefinger's whereabouts, are going to come up. Surely Sweetrobin also got a raven demanding he show up at KL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 hours ago, The Knight of Flours said: You'd think with that new war-map of hers, the subject of the other realms, including the Vale and Littlefinger's whereabouts, are going to come up. Surely Sweetrobin also got a raven demanding he show up at KL? A good point! I totally forgot about him and seems like the show did too... My guess is that we'll see Gendry sooner than Robin... 16 hours ago, Risto said: She also didn't mention Varys and I suppose his prominence at Dany's council would make it obvious for her to know about him too. Simply, she doesn't mention him because she doesn't mention him. No plot hole, just not mentioning EVERY SINGLE PERSON they consider enemy. This: 11 hours ago, Ice Walker said: Not really. They already assumed that Tyrion escaped with Varys. Which implies they both joined Dany. Either way, Varys doesn't have an army and his little birds have switched their allegiance to Qyburn. Littlefinger, on the other hand, has the entire Vale army and is also the Lord of Harrenhal. Makes no sense that Cersei and Jaime didn't even put him in the list of allies or enemies. + Cersei doesn't have any kind of deal with Varys. Varys disappeared and he is quite an elusive character known (in the books) for his disguises. Dany is known figure, Tyrion with his height is a known figure. Who cares about a bald man, though? The reports might have omitted him completely, so It's possible Cersei doesn't even know about him. On the other hand, she made a relatively recent and a very important deal with Littlefinger who is the head of the Vale army, possibly the only army (together with the Dornish one) that hasn't been decimated in the war. And now she knows that Jon became the KITN. She must suspect that something's gone wrong, right? 11 hours ago, Ice Walker said: I was actually surprised that Cersei sent a raven to Jon rather sending word to Littlefinger. I think that this (if we omit the "plothole" option) would hint that Cersei still trusts LF and considers him her ally and that she assumes that he hasn't arrived to Winterfell yet. She wouldn't need an immediate oath of loyalty of a trusted ally who is on a dangerous and important mission and his real whereabouts are unsure, as he moves with the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrmawr Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I think everyone is still assuming they know what LF is up to, which is generally a bad thing to assume. If I were Cersei I probably wouldn't make any demands of LF even if I knew he had helped Jon. The normal thing to assume would be that LF still plans to take Winterfell as it takes him further up the ladder. Best not declare him an enemy just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Winter Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I bet LF is up to something. They (producers and GRRM) can't have an army lingering around for no apparent reason.... LF has some wicked plan. On the other hand, why did nobody mention the Vale army as they were discussing how to defend the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhollo Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 The current status and alliegence of the Vale is very fuzzy right now anyway. The Vale lords cheered for Jon as KitN,, they join his meetings and we even see Royce speaking up about how to deal with the Karstarks / Umbers. So, is the Vale part of the Northern Kingdom now ? Or are they indipendent allies ? In both cases, they most certainly do not consider themselves subjects to King's Landing anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Rawrmawr said: I think everyone is still assuming they know what LF is up to, which is generally a bad thing to assume. If I were Cersei I probably wouldn't make any demands of LF even if I knew he had helped Jon. The normal thing to assume would be that LF still plans to take Winterfell as it takes him further up the ladder. Best not declare him an enemy just yet. Cersei is paranoid and not very rational though. I dare to say that according to her current situation, the most predictable thing she could do is to immediately label LF as an enemy in the moment she learned about his part in Jon's victory. But let's put this aside. Even if she considered him an ally and she considered his help to Jon as a part of his strategy to eventually get Winterfell for the Crown, the wierd part about it is that she doesn't mention him at all when she speaks to Jaime, although LF is a powerful guy, and we can assume that Jaime is the only person she trusts. 1 hour ago, Count Winter said: I bet LF is up to something. They (producers and GRRM) can't have an army lingering around for no apparent reason.... LF has some wicked plan. On the other hand, why did nobody mention the Vale army as they were discussing how to defend the wall? Imo, this could be easily explained in two ways - either Jon doesn't trust LF and doesn't want to have the Vale army around much longer because he is afraid of a betrayal from LF's/the Vale part, or the Vale army plans to return home soon. As @Rhollo said, the current status of the Vale army is wierd. They are in the North as if they were Jon's vassals, yet neither Jon, nor anybody else seems to count on them while making plans or care about them in general. The problem is that the only person that LF speaks to is Sansa, who isn't really in a position of power (well, she is, but it's Jon who takes decisions). I really hope that some things about the Vale allegience will become clearer after Spoiler Jon's and LF's conversation after episode 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legba11 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Cersei certainly knows LF is up in Winterfell with Jon and Sansa (oddly ignored in Cersei's letter). He is shown lingering around those meetings where everyone would see him. He isn't disguised. Qyburn clearly has information sources unheard of by modern intelligence agencies. Knowing that Tyrion is with Dany would be easy. He is publicly holding her court in Mereen, the common folk probably all know he is there (along with Varys). Why she doesn't consider his likely betrayal and the knights of the Vale (clearly in open rebellion at best, if not fully allied with her enemy) a problem is baffling This is a woman who sent her only trusted protection on a mission to kill a serf who she heard talked about her asking about his penis. I don't think she'd shrug off LF. Varys is a lesser thorn, and she likely considers him just an annoying thorn on a bramble of danger and betrayal made up of Tyrion and Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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