Obsidian Knight

Dany's Armies

14 posts in this topic

When the war is won, what is going to happen with Dany's armies? The Unsullied are free men and Westeros is a foreign land to them. Dothraki could never lead a peaceful life. War is in their blood so it's better for them to return back to their homeland. That leaves Dany only with her dragons. To keep the throne she needs more than that. She needs to gain the sympathy of Westerosi Lords. But she already lost many of them (Martells, Greyjoys) and killed/threatened some (Tarlys).

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On 23/8/2017 at 3:46 PM, Obsidian Knight said:

When the war is won, what is going to happen with Dany's armies? The Unsullied are free men and Westeros is a foreign land to them. Dothraki could never lead a peaceful life. War is in their blood so it's better for them to return back to their homeland. That leaves Dany only with her dragons. To keep the throne she needs more than that. She needs to gain the sympathy of Westerosi Lords. But she already lost many of them (Martells, Greyjoys) and killed/threatened some (Tarlys).

If Daenerys win the War nothing else would be needed to get the support of the Westeros. She has the North now, she hasnt lost the Dorne.. only 3 of Oberyns bastard daughters..(show dont hhave time for the Dorne right now). Anyway, if Daenerys win the Great War then she will be the saviour of Westeros so ppl will like her.

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On 8/23/2017 at 5:46 AM, Obsidian Knight said:

When the war is won, what is going to happen with Dany's armies? The Unsullied are free men and Westeros is a foreign land to them. Dothraki could never lead a peaceful life. War is in their blood so it's better for them to return back to their homeland. That leaves Dany only with her dragons. To keep the throne she needs more than that. She needs to gain the sympathy of Westerosi Lords. But she already lost many of them (Martells, Greyjoys) and killed/threatened some (Tarlys).

The Dothraki are a problem; the best Westeros and Dany can hope for is that they beg her for permission to go home and she says yes.

But the Unsullied, they're almost surely going to want to form her royal army, just as they did in Meereen, and there's no reason not to accept them. That gives her a much stronger, and more loyal, royal army than any of her predecessors, meaning she won't have to rely on her Lords Paramount as much. Which actually solves most of the problems that, say, Aegon V had in trying to push his reforms through. (The real problem is the future—after a few decades of relying on that army, they're going to start retiring and dying, and what will she or her successor do then?)

Meanwhile, even though Dorne and the Reach do have a lot more fighting men left alive than other regions, I think they're the least of her problems. In the war, the Lords Paramount who can raise tens of thousands of men matter, but in the peace, it's about who can maintain order without constantly calling for help up the feudal chain. The Dornish and Reacher lords and their people are pretty happy, because they didn't have to fight, so any idiot can keep order for her; in, say, the Stormlands, on the other hand, the most brilliant vassal in the world might be hard pressed to manage things on their own.

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12 minutes ago, falcotron said:

The Dothraki are a problem; the best Westeros and Dany can hope for is that they beg her for permission to go home and she says yes.

But the Unsullied, they're almost surely going to want to form her royal army, just as they did in Meereen, and there's no reason not to accept them. That gives her a much stronger, and more loyal, royal army than any of her predecessors, meaning she won't have to rely on her Lords Paramount as much. Which actually solves most of the problems that, say, Aegon V had in trying to push his reforms through. (The real problem is the future—after a few decades of relying on that army, they're going to start retiring and dying, and what will she or her successor do then?)

Meanwhile, even though Dorne and the Reach do have a lot more fighting men left alive than other regions, I think they're the least of her problems. In the war, the Lords Paramount who can raise tens of thousands of men matter, but in the peace, it's about who can maintain order without constantly calling for help up the feudal chain. The Dornish and Reacher lords and their people are pretty happy, because they didn't have to fight, so any idiot can keep order for her; in, say, the Stormlands, on the other hand, the most brilliant vassal in the world might be hard pressed to manage things on their own.

Unless the Unsullied start recruiting and training boys/men, they will die out in a generation. And I doubt they will train others the way they were trained, which will effect the overall performance of potential recruits.

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1 hour ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

Unless the Unsullied start recruiting and training boys/men, they will die out in a generation. And I doubt they will train others the way they were trained, which will effect the overall performance of potential recruits.

Yes, that's the point in my saying that they're going to start retiring and dying, and then Dany or her successor will have to figure out how to rule without a strong royal army after relying on them for so long. If she hasn't already made some major strides in "breaking the wheel" of the feudal system by then, she's in trouble.

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Yes, that's the point in my saying that they're going to start retiring and dying, and then Dany or her successor will have to figure out how to rule without a strong royal army after relying on them for so long. If she hasn't already made some major strides in "breaking the wheel" of the feudal system by then, she's in trouble.

She will enforce an absolute monarchy in her "breaking of the wheel", where the armies of Westeros become one unified army against all internal and external threats. This way, there would be less civil wars and internal conflict between minor lords, since the knights and soldiers would be loyal to the crown rather than an individual.

This seems like the most logical choice. With such unification, the nation will become stronger - and perhaps we see could a constitutional monarchy in five centuries :P They will either go the route of England or France.

Edited by Dawn of Fyre

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On 8/23/2017 at 8:46 AM, Obsidian Knight said:

When the war is won, what is going to happen with Dany's armies? The Unsullied are free men and Westeros is a foreign land to them. Dothraki could never lead a peaceful life. War is in their blood so it's better for them to return back to their homeland. That leaves Dany only with her dragons. To keep the throne she needs more than that. She needs to gain the sympathy of Westerosi Lords. But she already lost many of them (Martells, Greyjoys) and killed/threatened some (Tarlys).

Of course the Dothraki can lead a peaceful life.  They crossed the "poisoned water" because Daenerys commanded it.  They will lead peaceful lives because Daenerys will require it of them.  That was the importance of ridding them of the Khals.  Now they can live peacefully instead of participating in the slave trade.

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4 hours ago, Texas Hold Em said:

Of course the Dothraki can lead a peaceful life.  They crossed the "poisoned water" because Daenerys commanded it.  They will lead peaceful lives because Daenerys will require it of them.  That was the importance of ridding them of the Khals.  Now they can live peacefully instead of participating in the slave trade.

The Dothraki giving up their entire culture because Dany burned the Khals may be the most hard to believe thing in this entire show.

I can swallow it because she's like a God to them I suppose.

Still, it is hard to fathom they'd just give up their entire culture overnight.

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I believe the Unsullied will stay with her. They are free but they've also experienced years upon years of mental and social conditioning which probably makes it so they would have a very difficult time leaving their master even if they had a choice. Despite being free, most of the Unsullied we've seen still have that mindset they had when they were slaves. They're basically free in everything else but their own thoughts and minds.

The Dothraki probably could never assimulate to Westerosi life. Even if they follow Dany, they aren't going to become upstanding citizens of Westeros. They're not made for that. (Which I always find interesting when I consider they're part of Dany's army. I never really found the entire Dothraki thing believable but hey I'm not the writers!) So, either they'll go back across the sea to Essos and the Dothraki sea or.....they all die during the WW war? I don't really know what will happen.

 

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22 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

Still, it is hard to fathom they'd just give up their entire culture overnight.

I can understand them all agreeing to give up their entire culture overnight. What I have a harder time accepting is that they could actually succeed at that long-term. Even after accepting the idea, they still have to get up every morning and go to work in the fields for their lord (or, at best, to make money at the market at the end of the month), learn how to flirt with women instead of kidnapping them as rape slaves, etc.

Sure, there are plenty of cases of Huns/Turks/Mongols/etc. becoming assimilated Europeans/Chinese/etc., but that was when they conquered and gradually learned that it's easier to rule a civilization if you're civilized, not when they were subjects who had to learn overnight. Not to mention that none of the real-life horse peoples were ever anywhere near the single-mindedly anti-civilization Dothraki.

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3 minutes ago, falcotron said:

I can understand them all agreeing to give up their entire culture overnight. What I have a harder time accepting is that they could actually succeed at that long-term. Even after accepting the idea, they still have to get up every morning and go to work in the fields for their lord (or, at best, to make money at the market at the end of the month), learn how to flirt with women instead of kidnapping them as rape slaves, etc.

Sure, there are plenty of cases of Huns/Turks/Mongols/etc. becoming assimilated Europeans/Chinese/etc., but that was when they conquered and gradually learned that it's easier to rule a civilization if you're civilized, not when they were subjects who had to learn overnight. Not to mention that none of the real-life horse peoples were ever anywhere near the single-mindedly anti-civilization Dothraki.

I agree.

It isn't that they agreed to "tear down their homes" but that they can abandon their entire lifestyle longterm.

I mean, I assume the Dothraki think they get to rape and pillage the Reach after their win but I also assume Dany won't allow it......so conflict.

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17 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

I mean, I assume the Dothraki think they get to rape and pillage the Reach after their win but I also assume Dany won't allow it......so conflict.

Yeah, and even if they've agreed not to rape and pillage the Reach, and understand what that means, I think they'll still be confused about what they're supposed to do instead for women and food and gold.

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the dothraki will be a problem but if they left though then I see no problems right away. Dany would start her own targ army like many houses have their own personal army. The unsullied are no problem at all since they will stay with her and even if they don't I really don't see them being a problem. As for the other kingdoms who will they have to turn to? The lannisters will most likely be dead or tyrion and there are no baratheons (except gendry but I don't see him starting a revolution against dany) so with the exception of the grey joys who will likely be killed off who is there going to be to truly oppose her and who would be willing to go up against a dragon.

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16 hours ago, snow is the man said:

As for the other kingdoms who will they have to turn to? The lannisters will most likely be dead or tyrion and there are no baratheons (except gendry but I don't see him starting a revolution against dany) so with the exception of the grey joys who will likely be killed off who is there going to be to truly oppose her and who would be willing to go up against a dragon.

Assuming she beats Cersei, I doubt she'll have any problems with a revolt against the crown for a long time. The problem is local problems—a lord rebelling against his liege, a peasant uprising, two lords fighting each other, etc. One of the major advantages of a feudal system is that the crown rarely has to deal with that stuff. Lord Webber is Lord Rowan's problem, and Lord Rowan is Lady Tarly's problem, and Dany only has to get involved if nobody up the chain can handle it. But Dany won't have that advantage when half the lords in the realm are newly-appointed or -inherited, and many of them are doddering old men or little girls.

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