Rickon's role to play

[Euron Lannister]

8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Rickon isn't the heir, Bran is.

Bran is asumed dead, and i doubt he will be back in the north before Sansa and Rickon, in the eyes of the northern lords rickon would be the true heir.

Also him being crippled could remove him from the line of inheritence, at least in the eyes of some lords.

 

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Euron Lannister said:

Bran is asumed dead, and i doubt he will be back in the north before Sansa and Rickon, in the eyes of the northern lords rickon would be the true heir.

Also him being crippled could remove him from the line of inheritence, at least in the eyes of some lords.

 

I meant the readers know Bran is the heir. And Bran is presumed dead as much as Rickon. Actually, less so... B/c Manderly, Glover, Davos and others may believe Rickon is alive, but a Liddle knows Bran is alive or was alive after his alleged death. And I would imagine Liddle has told other clans. 

[Euron Lannister]

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

I meant the readers know Bran is the heir. And Bran is presumed dead as much as Rickon. Actually, less so... B/c Manderly, Glover, Davos and others may believe Rickon is alive, but a Liddle knows Bran is alive or was alive after his alleged death. And I would imagine Liddle has told other clans.

But Rickon is likely to show up soon, while bran doesn't seem like he would come out of his cave soon enough.

i think Bran will be presumed dead again, i don't think the lords or anyone will belive that a crippled boy, would survive being north of the wall or even south of the wall for so long, what the reader knows is pretty irrelevant tho.

even if they assume he is alive, and don't skip him because of him being crippled, declaring a child, which isn't there, king in the north, of the trident, and maybe even of mountain and vale, during a war, isn't a smart move.

also then again, if sansa has an army and was influenced by littlefinger long enough, she might usurp him.

 

imo Bran is pretty much out of the political play. im not even sure if he will ever leave this cave

[kissdbyfire]

43 minutes ago, Euron Lannister said:

But Rickon is likely to show up soon, while bran doesn't seem like he would come out of his cave soon enough.

i think Bran will be presumed dead again, i don't think the lords or anyone will belive that a crippled boy, would survive being north of the wall or even south of the wall for so long, what the reader knows is pretty irrelevant tho.

even if they assume he is alive, and don't skip him because of him being crippled, declaring a child, which isn't there, king in the north, of the trident, and maybe even of mountain and vale, during a war, isn't a smart move.

also then again, if sansa has an army and was influenced by littlefinger long enough, she might usurp him.

 

imo Bran is pretty much out of the political play. im not even sure if he will ever leave this cave

I never said Bran or Rickon will be crowned KitN though. 

Also don't see Sansa usurping either one.

Like I said, we'll have to wait and see.

[Guest]

This is just crazy speculation, but when reading and imagining what could happen, I like to try to get into the head of the characters. Rickon's a tough one, because we haven't seen him since Clash of Kings. He was 3 in Game of Thrones, I want to say next time we see him he'll be 6 or 7. A lot can change. The concept of death and consequences are probably much easier to grasp for him. He might understand that his father died by being a Stark and going south. Rob died when he tried being king and ended up getting most of the people who followed him killed too. Pretty soon word that Jon is dead when he was trying to lead people will get to him.

Rickon might not want anything to do with great houses and his name and people rallying behind him. He's just a kid, he might figure that on skagos, he's safe(ish) and alive. Going through with Wyman Maderly's and Davos' plan could get him killed just like those people he knew and loved. There was something Jamie said in Feast for Crows about Sansa. Not the exact quote but it was something like:

"Hoepefully she will find a nice boy to marry, have some kids, live a simple life, and forget all about being a Stark and all the great houses and they're struggles."

Maybe Rickon now just wants to live a semi normal life away from all the proud lords. Plus, being a boy, he probably enjoys roughing it on Skagos with Osha and playing with Sahggydog over the pampered life of a lordling. 

[cpg2016]

I didn't read Page 2, so if someone posted this, I am sorry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story

Rickon has no role in the story, which Martin lampshades pretty freakin' clearly with the direwolf.  He's a MacGuffin, a focus of other people's plots and schemes, but destined to have no real role with any agency.

For example, the fact that he's alive is used to show the enduring loyalty of the North to the Starks (the Manderly's and perhaps Glovers are conspiring to rescue him and enthrone him in Winterfell), but that isn't an active part played by Rickon.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, cpg2016 said:

I didn't read Page 2, so if someone posted this, I am sorry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story

Rickon has no role in the story, which Martin lampshades pretty freakin' clearly with the direwolf.  He's a MacGuffin, a focus of other people's plots and schemes, but destined to have no real role with any agency.

For example, the fact that he's alive is used to show the enduring loyalty of the North to the Starks (the Manderly's and perhaps Glovers are conspiring to rescue him and enthrone him in Winterfell), but that isn't an active part played by Rickon.

That shaggy dog is also a black dog... 

On 8/9/2015 at 2:28 PM, The Jon said:

    
So I was reading in another thread that in Celtic folklore, a black "shaggy dog" represents a harbinger of death, also used in Harry Potter's character Grim. So it might not actually mean Rickon's story is useless.

...

As you can see here (http://www.djmcadam.com/blackdogs.htm), black dogs in stories in general have been used in Britain in this way. In Roy Palmer's The folklore of Warwickshire, and taken from the website above, we see:

"A black dog with a matted, shaggy coat and green eyes roams in Whitmore Park at night. Local people avoided the area, since to see the dog means a death in the family [8]."

Sounds just like shaggy dog doesn't it? You know I always wondered about Rickon's wildness and trauma that he's endured, if he would ever be able to tame himself (or by Osha/Davos) or be blood-thirsty in dispensing Stark enemies. This passage wasn't actually what I was originally referring to, but I tried to find something quick so I googled it, and thought it might be of interest to you.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/90950-the-last-hero-tale-by-old-nan-foreshadows-the-deaths-of/&page=6

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I read another interview with GRRM last week where he mentioned characters alive in the books who are dead on the show, and he mentioned major characters including Rickon. Not sure whether that's just because of the havoc a three-quarters-wild boy and equally wild direwolf will be wreaking or what, but it sounds like it's too early to count baby Stark out.

[kissdbyfire]

7 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I read another interview with GRRM last week where he mentioned characters alive in the books who are dead on the show, and he mentioned major characters including Rickon. Not sure whether that's just because of the havoc a three-quarters-wild boy and equally wild direwolf will be wreaking or what, but it sounds like it's too early to count baby Stark out.

That sounds interesting. Do you have a link?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

14 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

That sounds interesting. Do you have a link?

Here you are. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2017/08/22/fantasy-needs-magic

Second question. Second paragraph of his answer. Also lists Barristan and Myrcella as majors.

[kissdbyfire]

13 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Here you are. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2017/08/22/fantasy-needs-magic

Second question. Second paragraph of his answer. Also lists Barristan and Myrcella as majors.

Thank you!

[Lost Melnibonean]

59 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Here you are. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2017/08/22/fantasy-needs-magic

Second question. Second paragraph of his answer. Also lists Barristan and Myrcella as majors.

Off topic but revealing...

Quote

Did you ever borrow anything from Russian literature? From our classics?

I borrowed only one thing from Russian literature that I could think of, which was the little bit I did about the corpse of Tywin Lannister, which was taken from the “Brothers Karamazov.” 

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Off topic but revealing...

 

Quick question because I haven't read it. Did Oberyn poison any of the Karamazov brothers?

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 4/12/2018 at 11:39 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Quick question because I haven't read it. Did Oberyn poison any of the Karamazov brothers?

No. The eldest son murders the father who is an asshole, but not Tywinesque. There is a love triangle between the son, the father and a gal, though, and the son feels he is due an inheritance. The fast rotting corpse of the father is said to prevent him from being remembered favorably after death. 

[cpg2016]

On 4/11/2018 at 9:54 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

That shaggy dog is also a black dog... 

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/90950-the-last-hero-tale-by-old-nan-foreshadows-the-deaths-of/&page=6

Hes also 3 or 4 years old - not exactly sure how a very, VERY young child is supposed to impact the story or plot in any meaningful way.  At best, he will be a symbol or prop for some other character

[kissdbyfire]

21 minutes ago, cpg2016 said:

Hes also 3 or 4 years old - not exactly sure how a very, VERY young child is supposed to impact the story or plot in any meaningful way.  At best, he will be a symbol or prop for some other character

The ages are an issue. Iirc Martin has said he wished he had made all the kids older. But Rickon was 3 at the start of AGoT. For all we know, he may have been almost 4, which means he'd be  ~ 7/8 now. So, roughly Bran's age at the start of the series, and close to Arya's, she was only 9 in AGoT. 

[Euron Lannister]

On 12.4.2018 at 5:23 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

major characters including Rickon.

i still would like to see a Rickon vs Sansa council vote, so i'm happy that george consider him major

On 13.4.2018 at 3:26 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Also lists Barristan and Myrcella as majors.

the second one is interesting, i would like to see a Myrcella-rosamund swap by doran martell and her being major lets me hope

while barristan, he's a pov in the upcoming Meereenish pov-zoo, of cause he is major, but it also speaks for him not dying during the battle, which i would like. especially to read Barristan-Victarion-Tyrion scenes ^^

[Lost Melnibonean]

15 hours ago, cpg2016 said:

Hes also 3 or 4 years old - not exactly sure how a very, VERY young child is supposed to impact the story or plot in any meaningful way.  At best, he will be a symbol or prop for some other character

For Manderley, maybe? 

[Chris Mormont]

On 3/22/2018 at 5:18 AM, chrisdaw said:

You have for some reason reimagined the scenario that I put forth. In the simplest terms, Jon and Ramsay about to fight for the North, Ramsay has Rickon hostage, Ramsay tells Jon to surrender or he kills Rickon.

Where have I seen this before?

[Chris Mormont]

On 4/11/2018 at 1:43 PM, Mooncalf said:

Maybe Rickon now just wants to live a semi normal life away from all the proud lords. Plus, being a boy, he probably enjoys roughing it on Skagos with Osha and playing with Sahggydog over the pampered life of a lordling. 

I don't think Osha will let this happen.  She knows all too well the real difference between the life of a Lord and that of a commoner.  Commoners do not have it any easier or safer, ask the miller's boys who were killed in place of Bran and Rickon. If that is her plan, then why go to Skagos, why not go South as far away from the Wall and the Others, why even keep him around?

My guess is that she will straighten him out and calm him down a little. 

Whether Davos finds him or not is another story.  Even if he does trace them to Skagos, I don't think Osha will be quick to accept Davos and his story.  I think this is where something goes terribly wrong and Rickon dies, accidentally. 

But I agree that Manderly is planning for his granddaughter to marry Rickon.