WoT

[Tears of Lys]

I'm up to about halfway through "Lord of Chaos," - and "Dance with Dragons" has still not come out. But I digress. :waiting patiently:

I think Jordan's got a great imagination and a very interesting story to tell in this series, but I see two big problems with it: One, he's badly in need of a good editor. He feels compelled to pound ideas into your head. RJ's lacking a good deal of what GRRM possesses in plentitude - subtlety and/or finesse. What GRRM says in a few words takes RJ reams, after which, the reader has been "worded" into a sort of semi-conscious state only to be jolted awake by an interesting nugget. I would chalk this up to just being a so-so writer, but then I have to admit I am hooked by the story.

The other problem is that, as others have pointed out - and this is probably the reason for the first problem - the story has been stretched beyond its logical bounds, whether for income-producing reasons or not, I can't say. At this point, I have no idea whether the multitude of names of nobles I've shuffled through will be important and worthy of remembering at a later stage in the book, or whether I can file them away under "useless junk."

So in short, I would give him an A for plotline, but a C for execution.

I know others have written on this subject, but I did want to give him his props where props are due. I'll continue reading. It's not as though I'm not enjoying a lot of aspects of it. (I've become immune to, or set wards against, the literary tics - braid pulling, glaring, etc.) I like the main characters - yes, even Nynaeve.

BTW, does he EVER throw in a decent sex scene? These people are too damn innocent by half, far beyond reality for their ages by this point.

[Dycedarg]

Welcome to the section of the story where Jordan realized that he could keep the money rolling in by stretching events out and having each book cover increasingly shorter periods of time. I liked 7 (I dig the pseudo-Venitian society thang, sorta like Braavos) but 8 is an exercise in pointlessness. If you can make it past that, you're probably good for the rest of the series.

ETA: No, the sex scenes neither get better nor do they get more graphic. Rand however does appear to get more experienced, which combines with a key story event in 9 to make one of the most amusing parts of the series.

[Sword of the Morning]

Tears of Lys,

You are in danger.

By popular consensus EVEN AMONG JORDAN FANS (of which I am a huge one on this board at least) things slow down like molasses after Lord of Chaos.

You are on your way to one of the best climaxes in the series so far. Won't spoil anything other than that but many rank it as one of the top 10 moments of the series.

Book 8 and book 10 are extremely slow. You will not mind as much as you of course did not have to wait 24 plus months for them and suffer the agonizing disappointment that very little of importance happened.

For outstanding summaries of each chapter of each book as well as an awe-inspiring cross-catalog of every character in Wheel of Time (yes, all 1880 of them) go to:

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/index.html

Enjoy and hope that helps. He was dying of amyloidosis, is currently holding steady against the disease, and if he lives at all will probably finish book 12 the last of the series entitled Memory of Light sometime in 2008 with publication in 2009.

Dennis

[maize]

Its not too late man! Put the book down. Yes, put the book down.... now. Or else you will get hooked to the series to the point where you will read the rest of the series no matter how bad it gets.

And this is coming from a person who thought Book 1 The Eye of the World was a truly great work of fantasy.

Well, on the bright side, you will appreciate ASOIAF even more.

[Werthead]

I don't think Book 9 is much cop either. Everyone rates it because of the ending, but seriously:

SPOILER: WoT

For the biggest and most important game-changing moment in the entire series, Jordan badly mishandles it and it isn't very important to the events of Books 10 or 11. The rest of the book is pretty dull, and the Far Madding storyline really adds little to the series other than telling us about another cool city Jordan has come up with. So 9 is better than 8 (weak) and 10 (appalling) but not as good as 11 (quasi-return-to-form).

[maize]

SPOILER: WoT

For the biggest and most important game-changing moment in the entire series, Jordan badly mishandles it and it isn't very important to the events of Books 10 or 11. The rest of the book is pretty dull, and the Far Madding storyline really adds little to the series other than telling us about another cool city Jordan has come up with. So 9 is better than 8 (weak) and 10 (appalling) but not as good as 11 (quasi-return-to-form).

You know, sometimes we should allow certain spoilers to be shown. Like the ones that will save someones time, money, and sanity. Like when an extremely bad movie comes out, and you tell your close buddies the ending like an asshole just to shut them up and save them the agony. .

[EHK for Darwin]

File most of the women under redundant. All of the nobles under irrelevant. All of the interesting characters under (near) permanently absent. Most of the expositions and travelogue's under needless. Relevant action under scarce. Pace under 'plodding' by a retarded, cripple snail's standard. Deus Ex's under prevelant. Overused plot devices (Ta'avern and others) under abused writer's crutch. The villains under neutered. Suspense under nonexistant.

Do all of this and you MAY have adequately prepared yourself for the rest of the series. But not even the most dismal of expectations can possibly prepare even an ardent Goodkind lover for the horror that is Crossroads of Twilight. If you choose to read this volume, stay away from any prescription medications, sharp objects, firearms, ropes, high ledges, open windows, sad music, tear-jerking films, or anything else the slightest bit depressing or you may be compelled to end it all.

[AverageGuy]

File most of the women under redundant.

What, there's more than one?

[Gerold Hightower]

I would give him an A for plotline, but a C for execution.

From where you are the plot hardly proceeds at all and the execution doesn't get better either. The worldbuilding is mostly done, too. I'm afraid the good part of the series lies behind you. Book 7 is decent but doesn't cover much time. It's actually the conclusion of Book 6. Books 8 and 9 have a few good scenes but are mostly filler. Book 10 can be easily summarized: (Nothing happens.) Book 11 finally ties up a few loose ends but it is poorly executed.

The ending of Book 6 is overrated, BTW. You don't know the whole story of that event before you have read the first chapters of the next book.

[dornish prince]

i agree that you are reaching the point of 'the meandering', but i've read MUCH worse. i really only claim dislike for one of the books and, of course, its crossroads of twilight. my brother enjoyed it because of its abundance in certain character perspectives, but i thought it was bad. KoD's, however; is as good if not better than LoC.

[Spectralist]

I think Jordan's got a great imagination and a very interesting story to tell in this series, but I see two big problems with it: One, he's badly in need of a good editor. He feels compelled to pound ideas into your head. RJ's lacking a good deal of what GRRM possesses in plentitude - subtlety and/or finesse. What GRRM says in a few words takes RJ reams, after which, the reader has been "worded" into a sort of semi-conscious state only to be jolted awake by an interesting nugget. I would chalk this up to just being a so-so writer, but then I have to admit I am hooked by the story.

I've always felt WoT is best if you are good at skimming/skipping the odd 10 line paragraph that details the contour of a hill for no good reason and terrible if you are the kind of reader that has to absorb every single word. Luckily I'm a skimmer.

BTW, does he EVER throw in a decent sex scene? These people are too damn innocent by half, far beyond reality for their ages by this point.

Nope, all the sex is referenced after the fact, or vaguely written. Except for one time that is discussed by other characters during the act.

What, there's more than one?

There's at least three

Moiraine behaves like the aes sedai are supposed to(calm, fast thinking, competant)

Verin is left ambiguous and aloof, probably to make her seem unique and enticing

And then there’s the rest of them, who are almost all interchangeable

Min might make a fourth, she has a little bit more personality then the masses

‘Course there aren’t that many male personalities either, between half a dozen and a dozen probably.

[Tears of Lys]

What a waste. It could have been so much better. I see the structure of a really good series.

I've always felt WoT is best if you are good at skimming/skipping the odd 10 line paragraph that details the contour of a hill for no good reason and terrible if you are the kind of reader that has to absorb every single word. Luckily I'm a skimmer.

What I find particularly disturbing is when a conversation is interrupted very abruptly to go off on a tangent about something or other, and then you have to reference back a few paragraphs to recall what the character started to say - if that makes sense!

[Daeric]

I don't feel guilty pleasure over reading them, and neither am I young boy. I might be an exception to the rule but I don't really think that you should make such sweeping statements mainly due to your disappoinment over the way that the books turned out.

Yes he went off track a fair way, yes CoT just plain old sucked, but he still remains a good writer and KoD shoved the series back onto the track for me, he's having to work hard to make up for the menadering that he did, but imo I believe he can still finish the series with a bang.

But then again talking about WoT at this site can be a hit and miss, you never know when people will get rabid on you about it.

[Arataniello]

BTW, does he EVER throw in a decent sex scene? These people are too damn innocent by half, far beyond reality for their ages by this point.

Sex in WoT

- way back in some dim and distant past there was the famous "Far Snows Dance", which was about as explicit as the coitus gets in WoT;

- Rand nails Min after the death of Colavaere in Cairhien, but it happens off screen (and every time subsequently);

- Elayne reminisces about Nynaeve discussing the 'gloriously frank' details of her marriage to Lan, but all we hear about is how Lan once kept Nynaeve undressed in their room when they were alone together;

- Elayne more or less demands that Rand 'sheathe his sword' in her, since he had already done so with Min and Aviendha;

- various bonded Aes Sedai/Asha'man sleep with their bond-holding Asha'man/Aes Sedai, or are rumoured to be doing so;

- Perrin gets it on with his wife;

- Matt gets it on with Tylin in Ebou Dar (this is about the most amusing out of all of the sex (such as it is)).

- Moghedien and Mesaana have been raped by Shadar Haran (implicit in books, more or less ocnfirmed by RJ).

There's probably more, I just can't recall them right now. So basically there appears to be NO SEX in Randland, which may explain why several countries have faded away since the time of Artur Hawkwing.

Aratan

[Dycedarg]

So basically there appears to be NO SEX in Randland, which may explain why several countries have faded away since the time of Artur Hawkwing.

Don't worry, assuming he survives the series I'm sure Rand can singularly repopulate the planet. We know he's got some kids on the way with Elayne and Avi and he seems to be getting it on with Min pretty much every night. That lucky bastard.

[Tears of Lys]

If you're even half kidding, I'm in trouble.

At least he's wising up and choosing Min most of the time for his nightly she-bop. That shows some taste. Elayne's whining would give anybody a soft-on.

[Tears of Lys]

Robert Jordan completely lost control of the story and his WIFE is his editor. She may not be his editor any more - I think I read that he has a new one. *shrugs* Its not going to make his books better now. Its too damn late. There is one book left that has to wrap up 2000000000 plot lines. Ain't going to happen. The last 6 books have been 6000 pages of complete tripe. Terry Goodkind is more entertaining at least for the possibility of mocking him. Robert Jordan is like reading a REALLY bad historical romance novel. Its all about the dresses, who is being a bitch and soft core smut. Strong appeal to young boys. No appeal to anyone with sense or taste, unless its your guilty pleasure (and you should feel really guilty).

Having a family member that closely involved in your work is rarely (note I said RARELY) a good idea. See Tom Cruise with his sister cum-agent.

I can see how it can happen, though. As Cersei says, Love will always destroy you - or something to that effect.

This sounds rough. I don't mean it to be. I'm tired.

Hell, maybe I do.

[Werthead]

But then again talking about WoT at this site can be a hit and miss, you never know when people will get rabid on you about it.

Compared to most SF&F forums out there, believe me, the most Jordan has ever got is mild criticism on this board. It is weird when someone posts a negative post on Dragonmount or Wotmania and a good dozen people actually support them. Surely something has gone seriously wrong somewhere in the series for that to happen?

[Spring Bass]

If you think of the multi-book series more in terms of plotlines rather than separate books, then there are still some good moments in all of them. Partially the reason why I liked Crown of Swords was because of Mat, although I will never forgive Jordan for the abominable

SPOILER: Wheel of Time

multi-book "Rescue Faile" arc designed to give Perrin something to do rather than banging his wife and dealing with his in-laws.

[maize]

There's probably more, I just can't recall them right now. So basically there appears to be NO SEX in Randland, which may explain why several countries have faded away since the time of Artur Hawkwing.

Aratan

There was also supposed to be some sort of dance by Domani women that would drive men crazy. I think a lot of people have been waiting quite awhile for that one.