The Happy Ending

[Starker]

I'me pretty new on this board. I read the series in Dutch and in English after AFFC, so excuse my English please.

I've been a long time lurker on this board and read a lot of theories posted here.

One thing really got my attention on this board and i like to ask you guys (and girkls) a question about it.

Everyone seems to have their thoughts on how this series will end. Which is beautyfull. But why are so many of you guys anti-Stark? Myself, i really love all of the Starks and would like to see the get Winterfell back before the end of the series. I like all of them. Even more after my second read-through. GRRM presented them to us as "the good guys" and i'me sure they all will play a big role in the future. If the R&L=Jon theory is true, like i do believe, then he will play a big part. But wouldn't there be just a big part for Bran, Sansa, Arya and Rickon? (Maybe not that big as the RLJ theory)

I just like to hear you're thoughts about the ending of the series and the role or position the Starks will be in at that moment (and why some of you are so anti-Stark).

[Rhom]

I don't know that I've seen people be "anti-Stark" but I do think that GRRM has a nasty habit of killing off Starks. So most people that don't forsee a happy ending for the Starks are just going off of what GRRM has shown so far. IMO.

[Prince of the North]

Well, I'm not anti-Stark. I think the Starks will rule in the North again. They, and perhaps Dany, are the central protagonists in the story. Martin himself has said the ending of ASoIaF will be "bittersweet" so I think the Starks will finish the series returned to power, relatively speaking, but there will be much hardship, sacrifice, and yes, even death along the way. I believe Martin foreshadowed the Stark's ultimate fate quite early on in AGOT with Ned's and Robert's exchange that's in my signature below. Yes, the Starks will endure. They always have.

[Starker]

[quote name='rhombencephalon' post='1360830' date='May 19 2008, 15.37']I don't know that I've seen people be "anti-Stark" but I do think that GRRM has a nasty habit of killing off Starks. So most people that don't forsee a happy ending for the Starks are just going off of what GRRM has shown so far. IMO.[/quote]

I think that because of the fact he has killed that many Important Starks already, there must be a big plan for the res of them, including Rickon. I hated to read Eddard die. Same counts for Robb and Cat but it seems like they had to go.
We knew Eddard from the beginning and reading him dieing maked the point to me that this series isn't just a regular fantasy serie. Robb never had a chapter for himself but was mad big in the chapters of his family. To read Cat dieing made the point that the rest of the Starks are alone with no one to fall back to. (really, excuse my English again)

Enough Starks died.

If GRRM will kill another (he won't, i'me telling you.) then i will cut of my little finger, put it in the fridge for just as long as he made us wait for the next book, and send it to him with the message: "Winter is coming".

S

[Errant Bard]

I never got the feeling there were more than one or two anti-Stark posters. Also, Jojen said the wolves would come again so it [i]will[/i] happen, though GRRM said the ending would be bittersweet. That's not anti-starkism, that's fact.

This being said, maybe the question is: Why are you pro-Stark? The PoV structure does a good job at showing us they are not the only good guys, or even, that they can be wrong. Why throw your support exclusively behind them? Would it even make for a better story to have them come out on top at the end? Would it even be good for them to get back the ruins and be forced in the game of thrones again? (with Arya and Sansa getting married and sent elsewhere for alliances)

My position on that is that for a fiction character (and it can even be arguably true for real ones) a spectacular, memorable, tragic, coherent fall and onscreen ending is way way better than cheesy good end with offscreen death from old age (yes, they ALL will die in the end), and and ending where they are happy wind over one where they get everything but live for duty.

Also, side note, if R+L=J, Jon is even less of a Stark than he already is, and I'm not sure if it would play any role. Let's be realistic now, if one day a guy stood up and said: "This boy, known as the bastard son of my late friend, whose family was deposed by people I'm fighting, is really the heir of the kingdom and should rule over you" who would believe, and who would follow? Whatever happens the "truth" is akin to Ossifer Plumm's six feet schlong, and I mean that it is what the powerful decide it is, see Stannis' "news" of Lannister incest and subsequent Lannister "news" of Shireen being the daughter of Patchface.

[back_packn]

[quote name='Errant Bard' post='1361008' date='May 19 2008, 17.25']Also, side note, if R+L=J, Jon is even less of a Stark than he already is[/quote]

Why does it make him less of a Stark? He would still be half Stark just as if he is from Ned + ???.

[Wrex]

I don't see any more starks dying for a while, they all got important things to do in the story.

[Jak o the Shadows]

[quote name='Wrex' post='1361712' date='May 20 2008, 08.01']I don't see any more starks dying for a while, they all got important things to do in the story.[/quote]

:agree:

Well said. I doubt any more Starks will die soon, I have the feeling that at the most only one more will die. Hopefully none, but if one has to go.......Sana will do nicely.

[Odie]

[quote name='back_packn' post='1361181' date='May 19 2008, 18.14']Why does it make him less of a Stark? He would still be half Stark just as if he is from Ned + ???.[/quote]
Does the realm see Robb as being half-Tully? It may be common knowldege, but the "face of Robb the Lord" if you will would be that of a Stark, even though he looks like a Tully physically. I think that is what's being refered to here. The mental classification of Jon by the realm and custom, as opposed to his biological roots.

[hurga]

I'm no Anti-Stark - BUT I can hardly imagine a simple, sweet happy ending without loosing much of the great authenticity we've seen so far in ASOIAF. All the Starks coming together, rebuilding Winterfell and living happily ever after just wouldn't fit into the Westeros we've seen so far.

And it would be a somewhat boring conclusion to the series.

[Prince of the North]

I think you're right, Hurga. I don't think there will be a simple, sweet, happy ending for the Starks. As I said above, I'm pretty sure there will be much hardship, sacrifice, and death along the way (there already has been). But I do believe there will be a Stark in Winterfell once again when all is said and done. Now, just how this happens will be interesting to see and I don't think George will make it all too pat or unsatisfying ;)

[Ded As Ned]

I'm not entirely convinced there will be a stark in winterfell at the end of the series (although I'm routing for it), but I AM convinced Winterfell will not be deserted for long. Winter is coming, and Winterfell is warm (hot-springs and all)... if I'm stuck in the North when winter comes, I'm making for Winterfell. Anyway, any happy endings we see are going to be after much fire and blood, imo.

[Egon de Szombathely]

We're just afraid of the Stark's Red Family Reunion! :ack:

[Olenna]

Sansa will stay alive no matter what. She's in a safe place, no one has any reason to want her dead, and she's very good at ingratiating herself with powerful people. The worst that could happen to her is that she'll be forced into another political marriage and/or molested by Littlefinger. I can't believe anybody actually thinks she will die.

Arya, on the other hand, lives dangerously and is motivated solely by a desire for vengeance. Once she gets it, she won't have a reason to live, and she will have been so warped by the revenge process that she won't be fit for civilized society. In the tradition of revenge heroes, she'll get her satisfaction and die in the act.

Those are the only two Starks I'm sure about. It's possible to envision a variety of endings for the other three.

[turinturambar]

[quote name='Olenna' post='1363022' date='May 20 2008, 21.03']Sansa will stay alive no matter what. She's in a safe place, no one has any reason to want her dead, and she's very good at ingratiating herself with powerful people. The worst that could happen to her is that she'll be forced into another political marriage and/or molested by Littlefinger. I can't believe anybody actually thinks she will die.

Arya, on the other hand, lives dangerously and is motivated solely by a desire for vengeance. Once she gets it, she won't have a reason to live, and she will have been so warped by the revenge process that she won't be fit for civilized society. In the tradition of revenge heroes, she'll get her satisfaction and die in the act.

Those are the only two Starks I'm sure about. It's possible to envision a variety of endings for the other three.[/quote]
I'm definately not anti-stark. I love the starks and I can't wait to see what GRRM has in store for them.

[Prince of the North]

Off topic but does anyone else find it ironic that someone with the board name of "TurinTurambar" is posting in a thread called "The Happy Ending"? :P

[Jakob Lightbringer]

Read a few short stories or novellas and you will quickly discover that GRRM has a habit of ending things in a rather *non-traditional* fashion. The main characters are often killed, maimed, or otherwise transformed beyond recognition; the expected resolution is often vastly different than expected; and romantic relationships are -- unanimously and without fail -- *doomed* to tragic and abysmal failure.
So, be prepared. ;)

[Sandor Dahran]

Remember remember

Jojen Reed says to Bran after the fall of Winterfell :

"Wolfs will come back again"

Conclusion : Just wait and see

[Prince of the North]

[quote name='Jakob Lightbringer' post='1364430' date='May 21 2008, 14.21']Read a few short stories or novellas and you will quickly discover that GRRM has a habit of ending things in a rather *non-traditional* fashion. The main characters are often killed, maimed, or otherwise transformed beyond recognition; the expected resolution is often vastly different than expected; and romantic relationships are -- unanimously and without fail -- *doomed* to tragic and abysmal failure.
So, be prepared. ;)[/quote]
Oh yeah! Most definitely! I know that's how George writes. I was just hinting at the fact that the name "Turin Turambar" and any concept of a "happy ending" should never be anywhere near each other :) Things don't get much more tragic than the story of Turin in the Silmarillion.

Now, to try to stop hijacking the thread: I think the Starks will return to power in the North. Will they be changed? Sure! Will they have paid a steep price by the time the the story is complete? Yes, I definitely think so. After all, they already have and I think things are going to get worse yet before they get better for the Starks. But I think they'll endure and the tragic tide will turn for the Starks when they somehow find each other again because (paraphrasing) "When the snow falls and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."

[Errant Bard]

Since GRRM made some reference to the Lord of The Rings ending as a good bittersweet ending, I would bet that "The wolves will return" indeed, but not long, as they, like elves, should be doomed to fade out and leave their land to lesser bloodlines, after their final showdown in this land. Though, maybe out of all the Starks scattered in the world, one will end the books with a "well, I'm home" (though it should be Sam saying it).