[Book Spoilers] Arys Oakheart

[j52y]

Assuming they continue to stay faithful to the book, Arys Oakheart has a rather important role to play in the fourth book, which will likely correspond to the fifth season (this is debatable, but for argument's sake). But, he barely appears in the books before the fourth book. While this works for books, it might not work for tv shows. Just look at how much more Theon is in the first season of Game of Thrones than he was in the first book.

So, the question is: when do we start this storyline? I assume that we'll at least see him before he leaves for Dorne with Myrcella, kinda like they did with Beric. But, if they're going to turn A Storm of Swords into two season, they might need to add some material (I think there's only enough material for a season and a half in the book, assuming the continue with only ten episode seasons). Now, they'll add in some of the Iron Born stuff from A Feast for Crows, but wouldn't it also be a good idea to show Arys land in season 3 and show he and Arianne fall in love?

[Zoren]

Arys is a VERY MINOR character. POV or not, his role in the main story is inconsequential (just like the Queenmaker plot).

[Crow's Eye]

Assuming they continue to stay faithful to the book, Arys Oakheart has a rather important role to play in the fourth book, which will likely correspond to the fifth season (this is debatable, but for argument's sake). But, he barely appears in the books before the fourth book. While this works for books, it might not work for tv shows. Just look at how much more Theon is in the first season of Game of Thrones than he was in the first book.

So, the question is: when do we start this storyline? I assume that we'll at least see him before he leaves for Dorne with Myrcella, kinda like they did with Beric. But, if they're going to turn A Storm of Swords into two season, they might need to add some material (I think there's only enough material for a season and a half in the book, assuming the continue with only ten episode seasons). Now, they'll add in some of the Iron Born stuff from A Feast for Crows, but wouldn't it also be a good idea to show Arys land in season 3 and show he and Arianne fall in love?

Given that we now know Oakhart's entire contribution to the series, I doubt we will see him as a named character, much less one that deserves being introduced prior to his scenes with Arianne. My guess is that he may just end up being another one of the unnamed, always-helmeted kingsguard we see wandering around Kings Landing, except he'll be in Sunspear. Maybe he'll even wear the helment during the sex scenes.

[Brewmaster]

Long ways to go before we get there (if we even get enough seasons).

Who knows how big of a role Dorne will play in the show. They may not even choose to show what's going on in Dorne. Certainly it seems pretty much a given that the season corresponding to Feast won't be done in the same way as the book. Removing Jon, Tyrion, Bran and Dany for an entire season would be a show-killer, if the series is still going on for that long.

But if you don't remove them, you have all these different locations / scenarios going at once:

Jon @ the Wall

Bran beyond the wall

Sam on the way to the Citidel

Dany in Meereen

Arya in Braavos

Cersei / Marg showdown in King's Landing

Jaime - King's Landing to Riverrun

Sansa / Littlefinger in the Eyrie

Brienne & Pod search for Sansa

The Dorne Story

The Iron Islands Kingsmoot

Davos? (I stay away from Dance Spoilers)

Theon? (same as above)

You have to cut out some. Its too spread out for a book and its way too spread out for a show. Without knowing for certain what the future of the series shows, I would cut out the Dorne POVs and the Iron born POVs entirely. They seem to set up the motives and political movings of those regions, but I don't see getting that detail as essential.

You let Theon be the window into the Iron born over the course of the series. You let bits and pieces trickle out about Dorne, like when Oberyn visits. You let us know they are pissed and have cause for war, but I don't think you need to show the political movements in detail for either of these factions. My opinion of this could, of course, change based on what ends up happening in the next couple books.

You probably make Sam's boat ride a quick one too, rather than last the whole season.

[Bahimiron]

Probably the best way to handle this would be for every episode of season 2 to start with shots of Arys Oakheart from various angles in shadows who he does naked kung fu stretches, think William Sadler in the uncomfortable first few minutes of Die Hard 2. Every now and again Roz leans into the screen and whispers "Arys. Arys Oakheart!" directly to the viewer. A good ten or fifteen minutes of this before the credits every week would really hammer home how important the character is.

[reiver]

Arys is a VERY MINOR character. POV or not, his role in the main story is inconsequential (just like the Queenmaker plot).

This is one of the dangers of filming while the books are still being written, especially the way GRRM makes small events very significant in retrospect. What i mean is the queenmaker plot, although rather frustratng to read at the time due to its seemingly small relevance to the overall story may be a major event that echoes heavily into future books.

[Brewmaster]

This is one of the dangers of filming while the books are still being written, especially the way GRRM makes small events very significant in retrospect. What i mean is the queenmaker plot, although rather frustratng to read at the time due to its seemingly small relevance to the overall story may be a major event that echoes heavily into future books.

GRRM has told them where the book series is going so they should, theoretically, know the level of it's relevance

[j52y]

Long ways to go before we get there (if we even get enough seasons).

Who knows how big of a role Dorne will play in the show. They may not even choose to show what's going on in Dorne. Certainly it seems pretty much a given that the season corresponding to Feast won't be done in the same way as the book. Removing Jon, Tyrion, Bran and Dany for an entire season would be a show-killer, if the series is still going on for that long.

But if you don't remove them, you have all these different locations / scenarios going at once:

Jon @ the Wall

Bran beyond the wall

Sam on the way to the Citidel

Dany in Meereen

Arya in Braavos

Cersei / Marg showdown in King's Landing

Jaime - King's Landing to Riverrun

Sansa / Littlefinger in the Eyrie

Brienne & Pod search for Sansa

The Dorne Story

The Iron Islands Kingsmoot

Davos? (I stay away from Dance Spoilers)

Theon? (same as above)

You have to cut out some. Its too spread out for a book and its way too spread out for a show. Without knowing for certain what the future of the series shows, I would cut out the Dorne POVs and the Iron born POVs entirely. They seem to set up the motives and political movings of those regions, but I don't see getting that detail as essential.

You let Theon be the window into the Iron born over the course of the series. You let bits and pieces trickle out about Dorne, like when Oberyn visits. You let us know they are pissed and have cause for war, but I don't think you need to show the political movements in detail for either of these factions. My opinion of this could, of course, change based on what ends up happening in the next couple books.

You probably make Sam's boat ride a quick one too, rather than last the whole season.

I am assuming that A Dance with Dragons and A Feast for Crows are going to be combined and spread out into two seasons. Even if you cut out Dorne and the Iron Born, there's (likely) still too much to put into one season. D&D are going to have a hard time knowing where to split the two.

Also, Doran Martell is going to have a major play before the series is over, I think. I suppose it's possible that Adianne's failed plot will leave very little negative consequences, but I doubt it. if nothing else, it's a great look at how the Dornish think as well as tying into the theme of backstabbing, powerplays, and how temporary solutions (like sending Myrcella to Dorne) have far-reaching and uncontrollable consequences.

It doesn't seem to me like it'd be very difficult at all to fit in Dorne as the Iron islands into two season. We'll be able to predict this better in July, but it seems to me that season 5 will be more focused on A Feast for Crows events, and season 6 will be more focused on A Dance with Dragon event. (Of course, assuming we get that far).

Assuming that they do decide to keep the Dorne angle, should we just catch up with Oakheart in season 5? I think that would be awkward. But would Oakheart and Arianne's romance be interesting to see? Perhaps not, but they could flesh out the Dornish sub plot in season 4 this way. We could see Quentyn Martell leave early, and perhaps get some characterization on Doran Martell and the Sand Snakes as well. And if they introduce Oakheart (in a cameo) in the second season, we could see him land in season 4. Given that Tyrion first had them go to Braavos, it's believable that it'd take him that long to get there. Plus, it'd be a good idea to introduce Dorne from an outsiders point of view.

I guess I think it'd be a good idea to work in Dorne earlier and give Oakheart an expanded role in the series. I know thats a lot of locations going on at once, but by the fourth season, I think that the audience can handle it. They're already going to be very well acquainted with the main characters of the series to be able to handle two new locations (well, the Iron Islands won't exactly be new, but they likely won't be features that much in the second season). I suppose a more important question is if they'll have the budget for so many locations/actors.

[Brienne the Beauty]

Arys is so minor he could be cut altogether from the story without losing anything of substance.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

One aspect that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is what Elia thought of all this. We're told in the book that the birth of her second child was difficult and greatly weakened her, and it was implied a third birth would probably kill her. However, Rhaegar would have needed a third child in order to fulfill the prophesy and if Elia believed in the prophecy as much as he did, his relationship with Lyanna could have had her approval.

[TheEvilKing]

One aspect that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is what Elia thought of all this. We're told in the book that the birth of her second child was difficult and greatly weakened her, and it was implied a third birth would probably kill her. However, Rhaegar would have needed a third child in order to fulfill the prophesy and if Elia believed in the prophecy as much as he did, his relationship with Lyanna could have had her approval.

That's a great point. So, uh, should Arys Oakheart be in the TV series or not?

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

I'm pretty sure he won't be cast. He doesn't do much in the 4th book apart from fuck a Dornish princess and get killed.

Hardly worth the effort of casting him. Just show an extra wearing a white cloak and that's that.

[halfwaygone]

Here's how I think it goes down:

He's mentioned for five seconds in Season 2 when they send Myrcella off to Dorne. (Ser Oakheart will accompany her.) Then, we see him briefly in S4 (if we get there) or S5, whenever they get to that part of the aFfC/aDwD story in the series, hard to know where it fits time-wise till we get to read aDwD, for his part of the actual story IF they decide to leave it in there. I expect it will be abridged but still there in some form. Knowing who he is ahead of that is not important.

ETA: From everything I've heard, I'm not sure why aSoS would be two seasons. If the show is profitable, we might be lucky enough to get 12 episode seasons later, but I cannot imagine them stretching any of the books to 2 seasons, though they have said they plan to mix aFfC and aDwD together, for obvious reasons, and make that 2 seasons (for the 2 books).

[Morrigan]

Arys has only one POV chapter in AFFC. He's pretty damn trivial and could probably be cut altogether.

:lol: @ Bahimiron's post though.

[j52y]

It's certainly true that Arys is a very minor character. But, I also think that the story with Myrcella in Dorne is going to prove to be very important. So, the question is how to deal with it. I think the way Arys's story is told in the books would come off terribly on screen. So, I figure they have two options: pretty much eliminate the character all together or expand his story.

To whittle down the character, all you have to do for the Dorne storyline is to have Adrienne plot a bunch early on, and then have then have her and her posse kidnap Myrcella and kill the kingsgaurd (aka Arys) who is guarding her.

I personally think, and I'm pretty sure I'm alone in this, that a better way to go is to expand the story. I think the story is interesting and it adds dimension to Adrienne. You could start season 4 (or 5) with Arys landing in Dorne, and show their relationship build and show Adrienne convince Oakheart to make Myrcella queen. That sounds like a lot, but the way the show tells it's story, I think they could show their romance in a handful of scene across two episodes.

[Frumpus]

I bet the entire queenmaker plot will get cut from the hbo series, so Arys Oakheart won't even be introduced or mentioned.

[Bahimiron]

Since episode 8 showed us all six members of the kingsguard (less Jaime) we've clearly seen Arys Oakheart already and I'd like to think that by watching the seven seconds in which we can see every member it's clear which one is him. The one with the heart, the strength of character, sense of purpose, the identical armor to the guys standing next to him. Yes, Arys Oakheart got the introduction he deserved! An amazing and breathtaking character.

[Zoë Sumra]

Sansa in ACOK likes him more than the rest of the Kingsguard - they could introduce him that way.

[Bubbles]

ok, first of all, hello - im quite new in here. I found some photos from Dubrovnik set of GoT, particularly those from Myrcella leaving to Dorne scene, and i found this guy - i have no idea can i post these pics in here but could he actually be Arys? He is clearly member of Kingsguard and by description he resembles Arys, maybe he is just too young - but i dont remember how old is Arys actually, i suppose he can not be younger that 28-29?

http://imageshack.us...s/80/arysr.jpg/

[legba11]

I think the producers are likely going to inflate the stories of popular characters for the books where they are (almost) absent. NCW (Jaime) is frequently with the big characters in publicity events. He might as well not be in CoK. This is not likely to be true for the show, which means they need to add material for him. Likely we will see his escape attempt, perhaps he will even temporarily succeed and then be recaptured (maybe by the Blackfish so as to set up their important confrontation in FoC). I think they will need to expand Dany's story as well. They seem to downplay the mysticism of the series, so perhaps her adventures with the warlocks will be completely removed.

They need to cut material, and there is plenty of meaningless fluff they can cut. The Dorne storyline serves almost no purpose so far, and really was just wasting time in FoC just for the big reveal at the end. I expect it to be completely removed from season 4. Basically, Dr. Frankenstein can mention in one of his reports to Cersei that there is unrest in Dorne over the death of their envoy and remind her how they were loyal to the Targaryens. Later, he will report that Arys is dead and they need to replace him (making room for FrankenGregor).

My money is on the character is never cast, just some anonymous helmeted knight sent with Myrcella.