corbon Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Amazingoopah, Corbon: Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that Alleras has a twin sister, or no sisters at all?Huh?You do realise that Alleras is his own sister, so to speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Do we know that for a fact? Suspicions run high, and with good reason... but are we certain beyond reasonable doubt?Although I guess I would like a transexual character once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Do we know that for a fact? Suspicions run high, and with good reason... but are we certain beyond reasonable doubt?Although I guess I would like a transexual character once.Seriously?A-L-L-E-R-A-S = S-A-R-E-L-L-ASarella:Her mother was a trader captain from the Summer Islands. She is nearly 20 years old, and has a reputation for insatiable curiosity and "pushing in where she didn’t belong"When Doran Martell orders Areo Hotah to take the Sand Snakes into captivity, Sarella is outside of Dorne. Doran says that he prays she will show more sense than her sisters, and tells Areo to "leave her to her game"Alleras:His mother is a trader and he claims to not be a noble's sonAlleras is described as having a Dornishman for a father and a Summer Islander for a mother, with dark brown skin, curly black hair, a widow's peak, and black eyes. He is slender and comely Oberyn Martell:Oberyn has a lined face with thin eyebrows, black "viper" eyes and a sharp nose.[8] His hair is lustrous and black with only a few silver streaks and recedes from his brow into a widow's peak.Its painted in glowing golden letters 50 feet high. Alleras is just Sarella pushing in where she is forbidden (the Maester's don't allow women to study with them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I don't think that every " i " will be dotted and every " t " crossed clearly and explicitly by GRRM. I fully expect that all kinds of things will be left as semi-mysteries or resolved by nods and winks from the author to the reader - for example the limping gravedigger. The brief mention of the limping gravedigger who likes dogs could well have been GRRM wrapping up the Sandor storyline with a nod (Sandor was wounded in the leg) and a wink (you remember Sandor liked dogs don't you).I certainly hope this is the case. I am not as big of a Sandor fan as others seem to be, but I still think this would be a nice, peaceful ending for him. To have him just come back and kill FrankenGregor would, I think, only complicate the plot further and bring Sandor back to a violent place. I like the alluded to ending that he is living peacefully now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramblor Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's also possible that his height and strength didn't carry, in which case they'd be harder to spot...I keep sort of hoping that we see a tall, red-headed knight with a spider for a sigil...Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk (called left and right by The Queen of Thorns) are about 7 feet tall, slim of waist and broad of shoulder with red moustaches. I don't like the idea of Hodor being a descendant of Dunk, Dunk was a lunk, but he never went full retard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramblor Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 1)origins of the coomon tongue from the old tongue(kinda like how the free cities got their dialects from high valyrian)2)EDRIC STORM!! House baratheon's last hope of continuing.(shireen will die soon of greyscale according to val) legitimize him dammit!3)theyve never shown us CASTERLY ROCK! Hopfully we get an edmure tully pov next bookJust a few more guns.btw i had to wiki the title to understand the meaning lolIf i recall correctly, Edric Storm was legitimized. Because of the fact that both his parents were of noble birth and everyone knew he was Roberts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 If i recall correctly, Edric Storm was legitimized. Because of the fact that both his parents were of noble birth and everyone knew he was Roberts.Not legitimized, just acknowledged (meaning Dad supports him), I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramblor Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Not legitimized, just acknowledged (meaning Dad supports him), I think.I was always under the impression that Robert having acknowledged him was the same as legitimizing him. I'm not sure of it though. I just assumed based on the fact that the great bastards were legitimized and they still all kept their bastard last names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I was always under the impression that Robert having acknowledged him was the same as legitimizing him. I'm not sure of it though. I just assumed based on the fact that the great bastards were legitimized and they still all kept their bastard last names.Nope. Legitimizing and acknowledging are not the same thing. Legitimization imparts legal status and protections. Acknowledging is nothing more than saying, "Yeah, I'm the father." The only reason that Robert acknowledged Edric is because Edric's mother was a noblewoman and it would have been scandalous/bad form not to do so. It really had little if anything to do with Robert having a preference for him.Take Aegon IV and Daemon Blackfyre. Aegon IV acknowledged that he was Daemon's father after a melee. But Daemon wasn't actually legitimized until Aegon IV was on his death bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silmarien Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 If i recall correctly, Edric Storm was legitimized. Because of the fact that both his parents were of noble birth and everyone knew he was Roberts.No, Edric is still a STORM, not a Baratheon. Otherwise he'd be the heir to the Iron Throne instead of Stannis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angalin Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 In particular because we're told in aGoT that Bronn has been North of the wall but we've never since been given any indication of why. Is Bronn a deserter from the Nights Watch or a wildling (with connections to Mance perhaps)?Finding out that Bronn has been North of the wall actually seemed to be the only reason I can recall for the game of "truth" with Tyrion, Shae and Bronn.I'm fairly sure that that detail was an addition by the writers to the HBO series, not something found in the original text. Setup for later seasons, I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramblor Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 No, Edric is still a STORM, not a Baratheon. Otherwise he'd be the heir to the Iron Throne instead of Stannis!I see what you're trying to say, but just to play the devils advocate, Bloodraven was still a Rivers, even though he was legitimized. And the reason why Edric wouldn't be heir to the Iron throne is because Robert "had" 3 legitimate heirs, and bastards even though legitimized fall behind true born children in terms of succession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbison from Ibben Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Here's a CG I haven't seen mentioned-The weirwood tree at the Citadel.I think Sam is likely to get a tree-mail message from Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenHand Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 What about all the ancient trinkets (inscribed with First Men runes probably only a few can still read) surrendered by the nation of wildlings and Thenns (particularly ancient & with connections to the old races) to the Night's Watch. We already have two instances of seemingly insignificant objects found beyond the wall that may be more than they seem, The dragonglass blades and the cracked old horn wrapped in the night's watch cloak at the Fist of the First Men. Dragonglass proved critical to fighting the White Walkers. And many believe, rightly in my opinion, that the cracked horn (now with Sam in Oldtown) is in fact the true Horn of Joramun/Horn of Winter.So what other pretty, runed trickets claimed to pay the Iron Bank of Braavos are actually powerful relics. Jon comments that monetarily many of these artifacts are probably not worth much monetarily (in Essos) and so should perhaps be kept (by Tormund at least). They are ancestral and stolen. The true significance has probably been forgotten just like so many ancient things in Westeros, including the Wall itself. If I were Lord Commander I would have my most learned man (Maester Sam) scour the objects and the books for any connection, any reference to an object that may be amongst the objects. Jon knows he needs an edge in this War, and he has been unleashing Sam on the books. BUT not with these objects in mind. And no-one has thought to examine these objects (talismans?) yet. I would involve some of the trusted wildlings in such an search.Bran would find out through the crow I'm sure. And if anyone could identify a relic amidst the trinkets it would be a weirwood greenseer with eyes in ancient times.The ancestors of those beyond the wall have survived a long long time despite its many hazards, not least of which was once the first wave of Whitewalkers after the War for the Dawn. We know that the White Walkers lingered beyond the wall a long time, at least until the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who became the Night's King. Who knows how much longer. We know that wildlings under Joramun helped to being down the Night's King. So at that time there were Wildlings COEXISTING with White Walkers beyond the wall!! How did they do it?I think a relic amongst the Wildling trinket tax is a definite Chekov's gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Corbon: I see your point. Those are not coincidences. But I don't think they rule out a brother.Then again, the lack of comment from other Dornish people probably does. Oh well. It was a funny idea for a while. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbison from Ibben Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The ancestors of those beyond the wall have survived a long long time despite its many hazards, not least of which was once the first wave of Whitewalkers after the War for the Dawn. We know that the White Walkers lingered beyond the wall a long time, at least until the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who became the Night's King. Who knows how much longer. We know that wildlings under Joramun helped to being down the Night's King. So at that time there were Wildlings COEXISTING with White Walkers beyond the wall!! How did they do it?I think a relic amongst the Wildling trinket tax is a definite Chekov's gun.Westeros will be saved by the all-powerful Ivory Phallus. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingoopah Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Probably not the biggest thing but it's something that's been in the back of my head after I noticed it.... There are two separate mentions in AFFC from Littlefinger's and Cersei's POVs (don't have the page numbers with me right now) about LF asking Cersei for some tapestries that used to belong to Robert... It sounds like a throwaway issue but I don't think GRRM would include this in two POV chapters without it having some impact on the story, especially since LF probably doesn't do anything without a hidden motive behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Jon Snarkgaryen Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'm fairly sure that that detail was an addition by the writers to the HBO series, not something found in the original text. Setup for later seasons, I expect.I would have to agree with on that one as well. I remember not remembering that tidbit from the books - though I could be wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinebreaker Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 As far as people, what about...Dunno how to do the spoiler thing...lots of spoilers all the way up to and including DWDSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERJeyne Westerling/Stark and her potential Stark baby wherever they are after being replaced by her younger, less hippy sister....Patchface's ability to predict the future......Along with 10 or 11 other pieces of prophecy/prophetic dreams...Hodor being a descendant of Dunk... One of Bran's first visions from a weirwood was a tall knight kissing a woman in Winterfell, A hint and no more, but still there...Rhaenys' cat... When it was in GOT twice it was mere world enricher... featuring 4 books later turns it into a Chekhov's air-pistol at least. Perhaps Vary's has a Warg amongst his 'birds'... Perhaps an earlier character was a warg and is still in there...Jeor mormont's raven... I'm convinced Mormont's in there. Prologue to SoS is ALL about Varamyr and Wargs. LOTS of facts thrown in there, including about how it's an honour for a Warg animal to eat their former 'warger'. literally 27 pages later, Jon recalls the crow eating Mormont's eyes. Also back in GOT (I think, may have been COK) Mormont tells Jon of the odd dreams he has about seeing others and giants beyond the wall... I'm sold on this one. Mormont's in there...Craster's sons is a huge one for me, ever since the Wildlings used it as a term for the Others...If we're talking about unnecessary clutter/important story...Jon and Sam said their Night's Watch oath in front of a Heart tree... Fair enough, the POV shows it... Then we see the whole thing again with Jon, and a bunch of new recruits... Something unusual is going on there... What if the Heart tree's are powerful enough to make that Oath more than it seems?Perhaps, Sam, Jon and a few other watchmen wil LITERALLY 'live and die at their post'. Coldhands, whether Benjen or not, could well be 'alive' now because of an Oath sworn in front of a Heart Tree...Cersei... Am I the only one to think Cersei was pregnant at the end of SoS? Increasingly irrational and obsessively protective of Tommen, 3 or 4 instances of being sick in the morning, and mentioning one of her dresses was very tight, 'especially in the middle'. I can see her pregnancy saving her from execution by the religious types... but when the child appears looking just like all her other children, and Robert WELL out of the picture... Just a theory, possibly over-reading details that aren't there.Sandor/Gregor. It's gonna happen. It's that simple. They hate each other, they will fight, both will probably die. It would have been cool before, but Holy warrior Sandor vs Cleganestein will be AWESOME!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinebreaker Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Plus...." "No," The eunuch's voice seemed deeper."Is Vary's PRETENDING to be a Eunuch??? I have no idea why... To hide a son??? Again, speculation... But while we're on Speculation about Varys.GRRM has demonstrated a liking for hiding names in plain sight... Sarella/Alleras, Arstas/Barristan, Griff/Griffin...Rheanys, Viserys, Danearys, Aerys.... Varys??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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