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Talisa really who she says? (BOOK SPOILERS)


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Ok how would you have done. You have 4-5 scenes to show Rob falling for a girl who in the book was a nurse in the middle of a war. What did you think Robb was going to do. go up and say "I think you have pretty eyes" followed by Jeyne fluttering her eyes and blushing. Please do tell.

It's an ongoing series they have an infinite amount of time to work into the plot. I'm sorry you lack the imagination to understand how a mature romance story could be told in this format. Have you read the books? How was it done there? We don't see Robb for a while, he's not even a POV character, then from Catelyn's POV he returns married to Jeyne Westerling, we don't even see it happen. The only way we know this even occurs is because we are given a synopsis of how they met. How would this not work for the television series? JFC learn to read between the lines. Does everything have to be so blunt they're hitting you over the head with it?

And hey, Einstein, this plot point is integral to the rest of the story. They can't skip it, it's not possible. Don't worry, just close your eyes and put your earmuffs on whenever the gross and icky romance scenes are shown.

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I really don't like the way the character has been introduced. Yes, one may stretch what the books tell as to imagine Jeyne Westerling helping her maester nurse all the wounded brought into her castle after the battle, and not only the young wounded King on whom the safety of her family depends...

But to show her traipsing through battlefield and army camp with her first aid box (not to mention amputating with a sawblade, definitely not a woman's job at that time, and chancy at best, even if they weren't actually doing it in the mud, they had better sense than that)... In that world, a camp follower is a synonym for whore = not the kind of woman even honourable Robb would feel obliged to marry after a roll in the hay.

This put aside, nothing stops the story to unfold as in the book : Robb gets wounded, he's nursed by the girl he already met and happens to be in fact from a noble family but on the Lannister side, he's not thinking at his best, she's pretty and willing, they fall in bed, he's in love, he takes responsability for soiling her honor, he marries her. The consequences (RW) will be shown in season 3 I guess.

In the book her loyalty seems to be clearly with Robb, it's her family (her mother mainly) that may be playing a double game. But we've seen that the show choose to put all the ambitions and shrewdness of the whole Tyrell clan on Margaery alone (she's both herself and the Queen of Thorns, IMO), so why not pin as well the doubtfull loyalty on Talisa/Jeyne? It's all for the streamlining of the plot.

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It just seems pointless and is yet another casualty of the forced 10 episode constraint.

Because its 10 episodes they couldn't show Robb off at another battle and how he gets injured. Then introduced the real Jeyne Westerling....

BUT OH NO. HBO must have only 10 episodes. So therefore a make believe character with a fake past has been created and introduced...

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Roose didn't go against Robb till after the Blackwater and Robb's marriage

I was under the impression he turned cloak after Robb's marriage (which occurred when he was in Harrenhal and Arya was his cupbearer, hence the angry Freys and Elmar crying about his princess) but before Blackwater.
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I did a thorough topic on this that was never posted, and I hope I can remember all of my points.

I absolutely think Talisa is Jeyne Westerling and that she is a spy for the Lannisters. I do not think she is the one who wrote the letter Arya reads, but I do not think she is on Robb's side.

1. I've noticed the episodes have a lot of parallels with characters, and I think there was a big parallel with Arya and Talisa. Two noble women who are trying to hide that fact and are found out because they can read/write.

2. On the same theme of parallels, I think they are going to do the same thing to Jeyne that they did to Margery. The show doesn't have an endless budget and cannot cast every character so they combined Margery with her grandmother and made her the smart, scheming Tyrell. In that same way, I think Jeyne will be the one who knowingly sets Robb up. The scene where Tywin tells his bannermen that they cannot beat Robb in battle on the field and need to find another way to make him fail was very telling. We all know that is exactly what happens. Robb doesn't die in battle, he dies because he marries Jeyne. I don't think Tywin purposly sent her into Robb's camp to seduce him, but it is possible that she is spying for Tywin, comes up with the idea of seducing him and leads him to his ruin.

3. Every single foriegn character we have met (Shae, Syrio) had some sort of accent. Why doesn't Talisa? And that doesn't even touch on how improbable it would be for a noble girl from Volantis to wind up in Westeros tending wounded for armies she has not loyalty to. Is she a Silent Sister?

4. Correct me if I am wrong, but when Robb first meets her, doesn't she say she is not on his side? He helps her hold down a wounded Lannister solider so she could amputate his leg, which made it seem very clear that she was a nurse helping Lannister soldiers. How does Robb not think it is strange that she is traveling with his army? Is a pretty face that distracting?

5. Talisa was getting her flirt on with Robb, but freaked out when Catelyn came up and really started to question her identity. She knew Catelyn wouldn't be fooled and got out of there fast. And yes, she does very sneakily roll that letter up and if you look at her face, she looks worried.

6. Many others have agreed and disagreed with her writing about "the young wolf is on the move" and while you do not ever see the paper, I do think that's what she was writing.

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@ Sarah Jencie

1. Talsiha or Jeyne is trying to hide her true indentity but not that she is noble or well educated. Unlike Arya she is not a captive or enthralled.

2. I more or less agree on your second point.

3. She could have 1 Westerosi parent and one foreign parent and learned how to speak the language from an early age from a native speaker, like some spanish freinds I know.

4. and 5. SIlent Sisters wear hats with stars and don't talk, they take vows of silence so no she is not, she is assisting them in their duties, the silent sisters don't take sides they lend their skills to everyone. She makes it clear to Robb that she does not think much of his war, she refuses to give her house name the first time they meet.

Talisha mentions the Long Bridge, which is a place in Volantis where merchants congregate. Maegyr is an old family in Volantis. In the books Jeynes family on her Moms side is foriegn, from Essos. One of her ancestors on the Westerling side did marry Maegor the cruel. The Volantene aristocracy is made up of people who can trace their lineage back to Valyria. Don't know if there is a connection between the Maegyrs and any offspring her ancestor might have had with Maegor.

6. My impression is that Robb saw exactly what she was writing, it might have said, "meet me in my tent tonight", and that is why she did not want Cat to see it ;) She doesn't really seem to be hiding it from Robb, it almost like she wants him to see it.

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I am rereading ACoK and as I read it, it occurs to me that it would have been very easy to stay true to the book and fit it within the 10 episode arc.

The changes are unnecessary.

Shame they couldnt trust the viewers and the source material.

tis aint better

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I am rereading ACoK and as I read it, it occurs to me that it would have been very easy to stay true to the book and fit it within the 10 episode arc.

The changes are unnecessary.

That's an easy enough statement to make. However, when you're put behind the desk, and you're the one who has to sign the checks and submit the story drafts, things can potentially become a little bit more complicated. It was easy to imagine Rome...building it was most likely much more complicated. I choose to give D&D the benefit of the doubt more often than not. Moreover, I'm more willing to wait it out and see where they're going before I vilify them.

Sarah, I like your theory on Talisa. However, I'd add to it that I don't necessarily think Talisa/Jeyne will turn out to be the ultimate villainess -- I expect that she probably starts off as a spy, but over the course of meeting Robb, falls for him every bit as much as he falls for her. It would match up with the book, at least so far as Jeyne being an unwilling accomplice to the Westerling coercion. I think Jeyne will cause the Red Wedding, but I believe that she'll do so without any malicious intent. She'll be the spy who gets more than she bargains for when she ends up caring for the dude she's supposed to be throwing under the bus.

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I personally think that one of the biggest give aways of Talisa acting as a spy, is that she comes out and says "what, do you think I'm a spy" (something to that affect). One of the oldest tricks in the book, is to speak the truth out loud, so as to make it seem improbable, to throw you off scent.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...

That's an easy enough statement to make. However, when you're put behind the desk, and you're the one who has to sign the checks and submit the story drafts, things can potentially become a little bit more complicated. It was easy to imagine Rome...building it was most likely much more complicated. I choose to give D&D the benefit of the doubt more often than not. Moreover, I'm more willing to wait it out and see where they're going before I vilify them.

Sorry, my friend, but D&D are not above reproach. Season 1 was a rousing success, you know why? Because they didn't try to weave too much of their own glorified fanfiction into the mix. They remained faithful to GRRM's work and that allowed them to embellish certain characters. But when they stray too far from the guidelines (i.e. the complete mess that was Season 2), you get the impression that D&D aren't the killer writers that people purport them to be.

Robb's storyline is a very simple one and could have easily have fallen within the time budget. Robb meets hot nobleman's daughter, gets wounded in battle, learns Bran & Rickon are dead, seeks comfort with said hottie and marries her to validate his mistake. Bingo! That's all we need. We don't need some lame romantic sub-plot with an inexplicable character change that does nothing but makes everyone dumber for having watched it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Forced and dry loved scenes aside, if Rob married her under the name Talisa Maegyr (sp), if she was revealed to be Jeyne Westerling would that not invalidate their marriage? Kind of makes the Red Wedding implausible "Don't worry, the wedding isn't legal anyway, and since she's revealed a spy, I have no interest in making it legal again. So Lord Frey, I heard you have some daughters for me to choose from?"

I know unrealistic, but when changing plots and characters around the producers of the television shown really need to make sure it doesn't mess with future plots too much.

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  • 2 weeks later...

i think they're building up for betrayal in Season 3. Unlike in the books, they're clearly gonna show that Talisa lied and all the westerlings were part of the plan to overthrow Robb, it makes more sense and i hope they do it.

And personally i can't wait for the tv viewers reactions, them expecting Shae/Tyrion and Robb/Talisa to be perfect couples, yet in the end the women turn out to betrayers.

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