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Michaelj

[TV spoilers] Dagmer speculation

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I don't think he's Ramsay Snow, as hes way too old to be him. However I do believe that hes secretely siding with Ramsay Snow, perhaps. He's taken the role of "Reek" it seems from the books, advising Theon what to do, to make the wrong decisions. I believe he is simply way too salty and experienced to not realise that if he captures Winterfell, then it'll fall some day and he'd die. I believe he has an utter motive. So yes, I believe he will be the one to go find some soldiers and then in episode 10, he'll gain Theon's trust and attack Winterfell. Yes, he's going off course from the Dagmer in the books, but so what? (Doesn't he tell Davos about Rickon? If he died in Winterfell, he wouldn't be able to do this anyway)

Ontop of this, I listened to an interview with Alfie. He said that he hadn't seen all the episodes but the actor who played Dagmer said episode 10 was the most amazing scene in which Theon and him participated in, with loads of fire. I can only think of one thing, Winterfell. I can't imagine some other people from the Dreadfort gaining Theon's trust, so their has to be some way. I can't imagine Ramsay gaining his trust either, since he hasn't met the guy and the Bolton's are allied with the Starks.. So it makes me think that it was Dagmer.

Thoughts?

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Dagmer seems loyal to Theon. He was the only one of the crew to show him any respect or attempt to bond with him in episode 5. His advice to execute Rodrick makes sense from an Ironborn POV. It wasn't a politically "wrong" decision just because it makes the audience sad. If we accept the premise that Theon is trying to hold Winterfell, some dramatic act is needed to establish his authority. The crowd and Rodrick were openly mocking him.

We already know that Ramsay is going to show up. I don't think Theon will be "betrayed" at all, except by Yara refusing to send reinforcements. Ramsay will just attack and sack the castle the old-fashioned way. The "twist" at this point will be that Ramsay is not pro-Stark, and proceeds to burn the castle down

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I think Dagmer's "loyalty" towards Prince Theon is genuine enough. Maybe he does genuinely want Balon's last boy to fit in with the other Ironborn, and thus encourages this whole "iron price" ideal.

I'm more inclined to think Ramsay will kill him a little later. They're enemies, they've never met, and they have no common interests that I can see at this point.

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Dagmer seems loyal to Theon. He was the only one of the crew to show him any respect or attempt to bond with him in episode 5. His advice to execute Rodrick makes sense from an Ironborn POV. It wasn't a politically "wrong" decision just because it makes the audience sad. If we accept the premise that Theon is trying to hold Winterfell, some dramatic act is needed to establish his authority. The crowd and Rodrick were openly mocking him.

We already know that Ramsay is going to show up. I don't think Theon will be "betrayed" at all, except by Yara refusing to send reinforcements. Ramsay will just attack and sack the castle the old-fashioned way. The "twist" at this point will be that Ramsay is not pro-Stark, and proceeds to burn the castle down

I suspect this will probably be true. While the reek reversal would have been cool its not essential to do. They could set Theons storyline up the same without it.

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I'm really not seeing where anyone is getting the whole Dagmer is not who he seems to be theme. From a few lines in which he encourages Theon to be Iron Born and kill Rodrick for spitting in his face? Or is it something i missed?

All in all I'm not particularly liking any of the Iron Born that we have been exposed to. They seem like a bunch of wimps... especially Theon's crew. Not cool. I want uber vikings!! I really hope they cast someone astoundingly brutal looking to be Victarion Greyjoy.

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I'm really not seeing where anyone is getting the whole Dagmer is not who he seems to be theme. From a few lines in which he encourages Theon to be Iron Born and kill Rodrick for spitting in his face? Or is it something i missed?

All in all I'm not particularly liking any of the Iron Born that we have been exposed to. They seem like a bunch of wimps... especially Theon's crew. Not cool. I want uber vikings!! I really hope they cast someone astoundingly brutal looking to be Victarion Greyjoy.

Dagmer is incredibly imposing and brutal.

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I don't know...I honestly think it is a possibe that Ramsay and Dagmer could be a "conjoined" character. The real Dagmer could have been killed long ago and Ramsay is posing as Dagmer to fool Theon. Maybe Yara/Asha will come back and tell Theon that Dagmer has been dead long ago and Theon will realize that Dagmer is actually someone else. I dunno, just a theory. Dagmer isn't too old to be Ramsay anyway...

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The guy who plays Dagmer is Finchy in the original The Office, right?

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The guy who plays Dagmer is Finchy in the original The Office, right?

Yeah, it is.

Wouldn't it be just great if Ramsay pulls his helmet off to reveal Mackenzie Crook in episode ten? :devil:

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Dagmer is incredibly imposing and brutal.

ehh i could take him... :P

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Yeah, it is.

Wouldn't it be just great if Ramsay pulls his helmet off to reveal Mackenzie Crook in episode ten? :devil:

Fairly good choice. I give it a 6.5/10 but I like the scarecrow batman villain some people have suggested better.

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I don't know...I honestly think it is a possibe that Ramsay and Dagmer could be a "conjoined" character. The real Dagmer could have been killed long ago and Ramsay is posing as Dagmer to fool Theon. Maybe Yara/Asha will come back and tell Theon that Dagmer has been dead long ago and Theon will realize that Dagmer is actually someone else. I dunno, just a theory. Dagmer isn't too old to be Ramsay anyway...

This makes no sense. How would Ramsay get to the Iron Islands? How would no one on the crew notice a stranger until now (it was clear that Theon's men know each other and go way back in the last episode)?

And how is Roose going to communicate with his son if his son is at Winterfell with the ironmen?

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This Ramsay-Dagmer thing, wherever it started, has to stop, really :P Brienne is the Mountain, and there are actually 3 Littlefingers in Westeros (wait, that would explain a lot...)

'My bastard at the Dreadfort' is clear enough to me.

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Dagmar is a plot device used to fill in for Ramsey's actions before we see Ramsey in s3 and also to make the audience more sympathetic to Theon. At the end of the series he would have outgrown his usefullness and will die. The actor (finchy) guest stars in a lot of things and rarely stays in something long-time. Most characters he plays are 2D which is why he doesn't hang around more (not saying he's a bad actor but he's been typecast in these roles for a while now and also has numerous commitments to juggle). The actor will not be hanging around past this season and so cannot be Ramsey or anything but a Ramsey placeholder. They'll also have to kill him this season as there'll be no point having him for one or two episodes of s3 even if the actor can film (and they're willing to pay him) this summer. He'll die before the end of the series I'm 100% certain of that.

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This makes no sense. How would Ramsay get to the Iron Islands? How would no one on the crew notice a stranger until now (it was clear that Theon's men know each other and go way back in the last episode)?

And how is Roose going to communicate with his son if his son is at Winterfell with the ironmen?

Simple enough, alien technology. That's where Ghost was going when he left Jon Snow...to place the antenna that would allow the broadcast of Roose's information to Ramsay Cleftjaw "The Bastard of Bolton-Pyke". You may not have noticed but during the scene where Jaqen was busy and not wanting to be bothered by Arya...he was setting up the Harrenhal com-link that tied in the north of the wall antenna allowing this. I believe the man in the Winterfell courtyard belittling Theon was Edmure Tully incognito sent by Hoster to protect the Reed children who were secretly disguised as his wife in the scene (standing on each other shoulders in a dress ala The Little Rascals).

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I think you are all scrambling to try and cram a divergent plot back into the way the books go.

My personal theory is that Dagmer is Yara's man. She's sent him along to ensure that Theon screws up and does not gain the respect of his father, which would disinherit her.

Dagmer has the same name as Dagmer Cleftjaw but is clearly a different character. He seems sly and mocking of Theon, not respectful and loyal. He seems like an obvious backstabber to me.

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Dagmer's thrown a kettle over a pub. What have you ever done?!

Squeal, piggy, squeal...

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As others have said, it would appear that Dagmer is taking on Ramsay's role as Reek in Clash, encouraging Theon to do be a harsh ruler.

I am very curious about how they are going to do the part with the miller's sons. There shouldn't be any way for an Ironborn man to know about that mill with boys the same ages as Bran and Rickon and have the foresight to bring Bran and Rickon's clothes to pull of that deception. I guess Theon could come up with the idea, but that doesn't really go with TV Theon's more sympathetic character. Or perhaps they come across the mill, and Dagmer suggests it to Theon, and they quickly grab clothes from the castle.

The way I see the sack of Witnerfell turning out is (if Dagmer is not somehow Ramsay) that the Bastard of Bolton appears at the same time or shortly after the remainder of Ser Rodrick's troops and maybe other Northern allies and pretends to be there to help him but kills them all and burns the castle (just like in the book). I do think if it happens like that, we will lose some of the impact of Theon's story. Reek/Ramsay's betrayal was a big surprise to me, and I think TV viewers will be missing out, and it will be hard to explain why the Boltons turn against the Starks, but I think we still have time to work it out though. Maybe Ramsay tells Theon his father wants to be King in the North, and this will pave the way for him.

I can't wait to see how this unfolds!

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