The R. A. Salvatore Thread

[Ser Paladin]

It's boring and it's predictable and I don't understand why anyone who would read it once they're past age 14.

For me (at the ripe old age of 37), authors like Salvatore and Feist are a palate cleanser.

I read Feast for Crows when it was released, and followed it with a re-read of the Red Dwarf books. I re-read the Foundation Novels over Christmas and followed it with Good Omens. Then I read the Bakker Prince of Nothing trilogy and followed that with the last "War of the Spider Queen" book. And now I'm reading Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, and will probably follow that up with some Alvin Maker.

If I read Wolfe's books hot on the heels of Prince of Nothing, I'd probably need therapy.

[Galactus]

Agreed.

It's like popcorn, it's not filling, not even really tasty, but it's momentary diversion.

[Werthead]

I quite liked The Thousand Orcs though the time-scale doesn't seem quite right. Siege of Darkness is set in 1358 (the Time of Troubles), Passage to Dawn is set 6 years later, The Silent Blade is about a year after Passage to Dawn starts, Sea of Storms is about 2 years after that making the year roughly 1368. The Hunter's Blades trilogy is therefore around 1369 yet the orc invasion should really be a couple of years later according to the Forgotten Realms campaign info.

Salvatore has always said he doesn't keep tabs on general FR continuity. If you look carefully at Salvatore's FR books, they generally don't fit in with the others very well in terms of tone or setting and occasional cameos from Alustriel or Khelben aside, very little of the general FR world seems to penetrate into Salvatore's story-bubble, which seems to consist purley of Icewind Dale, the North, Mithril Hall, Menzoberranzan, Calimport and the Spirit Soaring and Edificant Library. If he had Drizzt headed off to Shadowdale to meet Elminster I'd be quite surprised. So Salvatore getting his dates wrong is not unexpected. That his editors missed it as well is a bit odd, but then Salvatore does seem to now firmly be in the 'too popular to be edited' league.

[Morcant]

Whereas reading ASOIAF is like watching 'Mission:Impossible', reading Salvatore is like watching 'Mission:Impossible 2'. One has a complex and interesting plot with well-developed characters, the other is all crazy action and special effects.

In this style of fantasy (i.e. a long series of dwarves and dragon style fantasy, quick and action-filled) I would recommend Feist over Salvatore.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Drizzt and Wulfgar do meet Khelben Blackstaff in The Halfling's Gem though. But other than that they do seem insulated.

[Krafus]

Yeah, I also wish Salvatore would integrate Drizzt and his friends more into Realms continuity. Still, IIRC WotC have asked him to keep Drizzt and co. into the North, so it's unlikely that they'll change geographical location anytime soon. (IMHO, one of the main reasons for the Sellswords trilogy is that Salvatore wanted to write in other locales.)

Oh, and does anyone else think that the Companions' romp through Mithral Hall in Streams of Silver was an almost point-by-point copy of the Fellowship of the Ring's trek through the Mines of Moria?

[PhelanArcetus]

Oh, and does anyone else think that the Companions' romp through Mithral Hall in Streams of Silver was an almost point-by-point copy of the Fellowship of the Ring's trek through the Mines of Moria?

You want point by point copy, check out Dennis L. McKiernan's Iron Tower trilogy. That's even more blatant. Except McKiernan is a better author over all. He at least changes the main moral theme between books.

I also read Salvatore's Demonwars saga. It was an interesting setting, but damn if the main characters weren't more Drizzts. Later Drizzts, that is, with the reluctance and moralizing. Same moral themes as the last six to ten Drizzt book I'd read at that point, as well.

In a way, it's nice that the Drizzt stories are somewhat disconnected from the rest of FR, as FR is just ridiculous. With so many overpowered characters running around, I can't conceive of a campaign set there, one of my main gripes with the setting. That and a feel that the designers said "hey, we don't have an indian culture yet... where's there some room on the map?" and plunked a new nation down somewhere, without figuring out how it might make sense for this entirely different culture to be there.

Unfortunately, the rather low magic level of the Drizzt stories puts it at odds with the entirety of FR itself. And more unfortunately, haven't I read this exact fight scene twice in previous books? And that moral essay in Drizzt's journal eight times? In this book alone?

Even with all those complaints, Salvatore is towards the top of the low-quality fantasy market. He's not so bad that you condemn all fantasy as childish drivel, that's for sure.

[Galactus]

Actually Drizzt had to be *downgraded* in the game because he had acquired way too powerful stuff in the novels FR's wealth standards really aren't that much higher than core D&D's: It just has a lot more higher-level characters. Drizzt's scimitars were especially nerfed in his 3rd. ed. game stats.

[Werthead]

The problem with magic is D&D's fault, not FR's, although other settings did seem to encourage lower-level characters (most notably Greyhawk, where many powerful NPCs were listed as only being 17th level or so) whilst you can barely open the FR rulebooks without getting hit by some Level 25 uber-character. I also found it interesting that the only FR novels to really employ the D&D magic rules in their entirety are The Return of the Archwizards Trilogy, where Denning somehow managed to convey the high-magic setting in a way that makes the story work, but does make you ponder on how preposterous the idea is for an ongoing setting (this is a beef of mine with Erikson's Malazan world which, whilst marvellously detailed, feels like it should have been obliterated millennia ago due to the over-powerful magic and magic-users running around).

In short, I'd love some kind of magical catacylsm to strike the Realms, wipe out high-level magic (and kill characters who should have died centuries ago, including Elminster, the Seven Sisters and Manshoon) and just leave the basic setting, which I think is fine as a D&D adventure world.

Actually, the designers have never really put new countries into Faerun itself without warning (Luruar's founding is covered in FR gaming materials; Erlkazar is a slight retcon but nothing too serious and its status in 3E seems nebulous anyway), although the sudden appearance of the underwater kingdoms in the Inner Sea was a bit disconcerting. What was cheesier was the sudden appearance of whole new continents (namely Zakhara and Maztica) when they decided to do an Arabian or Amerindian setting.

[Galactus]

That actually happened, it's called "Karsus Folly"

I kind of like Zakhara though, some of the ties (eg. deities who may or may not be the same as the FR ones) to the "mainstream" FR are amusing (if only because of Elfinster )

And the "new continents" were simply never *defined*. Zakhara is kind of isolated, Maztica only recently discovered, Kara-Tur is beyond a huge plain very few traverse.... So it's not a big deal, especially as they've always pointed out that there are huge areas of the globe not "known" to Faerûnians.

I think the fact that, "there's always someone bigger" is part of the charm of FR, yeah, to a great degree it doesen't make sense, but then, it's kind of fun anyway

(and you can always justify it by Mystra simply stripping anoyne who gets *too* dangerous of their magic.... And even if she doesen't the fear that she might probably keeps a lot of people in line)

[oneeye]

I agree FR is for power gamers, but it's nice that there's always something bigger.

and yes Karsus's folly where he tried to become a god, interupted the mythal and blasted the netheril empire to pieces creating the anauroch desert sounds like a cataclysm to me.

the world itself is basically a merge between LOTR and the real world, it's fine.

it would take about 6-12 months of hard riding to get from cormyr to karatur.

FR is better than Eberron and Greyhawk! though zagyg was kinda funny.

[Galactus]

My preferred settings are actually Planescape, Ravenloft and Al-Qadim.... Though all of those are kind of "oddball" and doesen't suit your general "high fantasy" gaming that much.

I also liked Spelljammer. Giant Space Hamster FTW!

[PhelanArcetus]

Salvatore definitely plays. I recall the foreword to the Cleric Quintet. There was a mention of how he wanted to write about a monk, but TSR wasn't including them in 2nd edition, so they suggested cleric, followed by a bit about how the cleric was always the class played by "whoever got to the table last". Then he ends with how he now loves to play clerics.

My FR dislike is more the fact that I haven't been able to make sense of the cultures in terms of their placement and interaction, and the presence of people like Elminster. (Who, by the way, had a laughably bad stat block when I last looked in 3.0, though it did match his books... Fighter 1 Rogue 2 Cleric 3 Wizard lots.) That man is ridiculously overpowered in the books, though I'm pretty sure anybody on the character optimization board could make somebody five levels lower who could slaughter him 99 times out of 100.

The overabundance of gods doesn't thrill me either, but I tend to prefer smaller pantheons, if not monotheism. I love the potential for a powerful church in a setting, especially when it's corrupt (and/or has to deal with a schism).

(And every time I hear about a game set in FR, there seems to be a dragon or lich on every hill.)

Really the problem with Salvatore is the repetitive moralizing more than anything else. For the type of fiction he writes, he's good.

[Galactus]

Hey, we've only killed one dragon (admittedly 'twas just a wyrmling) in all my FR games (or wait, it was, in fact, two.... One white, one black, both pretty small)

[Enguerrand]

Still, the battle choreography is best I've found anywhere, and when it works, it really works.

From what I read it was it was mind numbingly boring. A slaughter fest without any subtlety. Like most of the D&D hack novels.

The only D&D novels I ever enjoyed was Paul Kidd’s books about the Justicar and Escalla. Not only is "battle choreography" immensely superior. It has a cool dialogue with an innuendo that I should have breached WOTC novel guidelines, hilariously funny(if you have that kind humour) and even character development. Not a moody dark elf in sight.

[Krafus]

From what I read it was it was mind numbingly boring. A slaughter fest without any subtlety. Like most of the D&D hack novels.

*shrug* To each their own.

[Spring Bass]

Salvatore has some decent books, even if they are not exceptional literature. The first book in the Second Demonwars saga, Ascendance, was very fun to read because he portrayed the rise to power of a nasty, power-hungry character (although he botched him in the third book), and it was genuinely interesting. Most of the Demonwars books were interesting, if unoriginal; he seems to borrow a lot of ideas from Tolkien.

As for his books in the Forgotten Realms, Crystal Shard was fun to read, but I could barely get through Streams of Silver. It just seemed like a lot of Tolkien all over again.

[Durckad]

FR is better than Eberron and Greyhawk! though zagyg was kinda funny.

I'd rather run an Eberron or Greyhawk game FYI

Actually, I already have.

[Werthead]

I've mostly run FR games or my own campaign world. My players developed some good dragon-slaying techniques and took down about two or three with them until I got my hands on the Draconomicon book and then hit them with dragons that can split their breath-weapons or make their breath weapon effects linger for several turns (gotta love a dragon that breathes napalm!). They weren't so keen on dragons after that.

However, virtually every game I've run has involved a Planescape cross-over at some point for some reason (most of my group are big Torment fans and like a bit of Sigil-exploring between quests). I tried to get people to play Dark Sun but they ran away and cried at the thought of the psionics system. Ravenloft has had a few one-off adventures though and was quite good.

I've never used Drizzt in my games for reasons of extreme tedium with the character (although Bruenor once cropped up during a campaign set defending Luruar from an orc invasion). I once used Elminster and my high-level PCs tried to kill him. That encounter ended with the PCs dead and half of Shadowdale ablaze. That was the end of that particular campaign. Since then I've steered well clear of using the Realms' uber-powerful NPCs.

Interesting that Salvatore and Terry Brooks are apparently mates in real life, as they have similar career trajectories. However, I'd rather read a Salvatore book any day of the week. His LotR 'tributes' aren't quite as vomit-inducingly blatant.

[Durckad]

I've never used Drizzt in my games for reasons of extreme tedium with the character (although Bruenor once cropped up during a campaign set defending Luruar from an orc invasion). I once used Elminster and my high-level PCs tried to kill him. That encounter ended with the PCs dead and half of Shadowdale ablaze. That was the end of that particular campaign. Since then I've steered well clear of using the Realms' uber-powerful NPCs.

The few times I've run FR games, I've completely avoided the uber NPC's. It's actually pretty easy.

Then again, I've only run 2, short-lived FR campaigns, one an 'eeeevil Zhentarim' campaign and another focused around Malar and that big Forest in the northern part of the realms (the Great Wood?).