Gun Control 3

[Angalin]

Busy topic today. :(

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Seriously, look at Japan. That country has arguably more depressed rage filled young males per capita than we do yet we almost never hear of mass murders. They treat guns like the pague. This year alone we've had the Oakland college shootings, Colorado movie shootings, Wisconsin temple murders, Oregon mall, etc etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway

[The Progressive]

All I have to say is that it is inspiring to see how some posters have came out and stated that they will give up their guns and changed their mind about banning gun.

Change will come, and we'll bury the gun nuts and the obstructionists in the dustbin of history.

[maize]

Just said in the other thread, look at Japan. That country has arguably more depressed rage filled young male introverts per capita than we do yet we almost never hear of mass murders. They treat guns like the pague. This year alone we've had the Oakland college shootings, Colorado movie shootings, Wisconsin temple murders, Oregon mall, etc etc.

[ShowOverBooks]

All I have to say is that it is inspiring to see how some posters have came out and stated that they will give up their guns and changed their mind about banning gun.

Change will come, and we'll bury the gun nuts and the obstructionists in the dustbin of history.

We can't bury them - they have guns.

[maize]

http://en.wikipedia....school_massacre

http://en.wikipedia....habara_massacre

http://en.wikipedia....he_Tokyo_subway

3 in the last 18 years. Thanks for proving my point. How many have we had this year? The past 6 months?

[Robin Of House Hill]

Ladders and busses have legitimate uses. Hand guns and semi-auto weapons and large magazines do not. They exist solely for killing people. You can do target shooting with a BB gun.

If that is their purpose, in your mind, you are potentially more dangerous than the vast majority of gun owners.

[Werthead]

Given Obama is now in the 'safe zone' and doesn't need to worry about re-election, what are the chances of there being major changes in gun control laws in response to this? I can't see how a massacre of this kind, against innocent children, can be ignored as the shootings of adults or high school kids have in the past.

Under that insane scenario, what do I do if someone kicks in my door at 2 AM and tries to harm me? Call 911 and wait 20 minutes for help to arrive? I suppose you'll say, "Oh well, too bad Lorien got killed, but that's less of a risk than the possibility that Lorien might shoot up a bowling alley, at some future date".

Smack them in the face with a baseball bat. Jump out the window (what floor you live on may make this practical or not). If your life is in genuine danger, stab them with a kitchen knife. Even here we had a recent incident where a guy was robbed at home by someone wielding a knife. He turned the attacker's knife on him, killing him, and was not prosecuted for it.

I suppose the industrial aid provided to the USSR played no role?

Oh, we are going to continue this? Okay. No substantive role, no. It aided the speed of the USSR's counter-attacks in 1943 and 1944, but no more than that. Lend-Lease did not start arriving in the USSR in substantive numbers until late in 1942, and the actual weapons sent to the USSR (tanks and planes) were mostly not used on the front lines, because they were inferior to Soviet models.

How about keeping the Japanese busy in the Pacific allowing the USSR to fight a one front war?

The Japanese had no plans to attack or go to war against the Soviet Union at all, and told Hitler to go screw himself when he suggested they attack the Soviet Far East. This was a non-existent threat. Japan and Russia did not go to war until August 1945.

Moscow is where the war was won.

The Germans could have won Operation Blue in 1942, though, which would have resulted in either a Russian defeat (their war machine would have run out of fuel) or dragged the war on for years longer. In addition, Moscow's capture would likely have not been a war-winning move (any more than it was for Napoleon).

[delete this account pls]

Under that insane scenario, what do I do if someone kicks in my door at 2 AM and tries to harm me? Call 911 and wait 20 minutes for help to arrive? I suppose you'll say, "Oh well, too bad Lorien got killed, but that's less of a risk than the possibility that Lorien might shoot up a bowling alley, at some future date".

Lorien, precisely how many times has some random psycho kicked your door in at 2 am? You can give an estimate if you cant remember the exact number, since I'm sure it's so high, because why else would a rational normal person bring such a thing up, right? You might want to look into a better door, or at least some locks.

I have a cricket bat in my room. Unless this made-up intruder who has never busted down my door and never will is armed with a gun, I am 100% confident that me and my cricket bat can take him down fairly quickly. And he wont be armed with a gun, btw, because guns are nearly impossible for normal citizens to get in this country.

But hey, say this imaginary person does bust into my house. And I'm ARMED WITH A MOTHERFUCKIN GUN YEEHAW.

But oh no...

The criminal has outsmarted me ....

He is wearing an Iron Man suit :0

[The Progressive]

We can't bury them - they have guns.

They day will come when there will be enough votes for the passage of legislation banning all gun. I hope that it will come sooner than later. When that day come, I don't think they'll be able to successfully oppose the confiscation of their toys.

[Thlayli]

From Tormund in the other thread:

"If the guy was a bus driver and had driven them all into a lake, we probably wouldn't have a thread, and you definitely wouldn't be asking the question."

Probably true. The subject wouldn't come up here, but somewhere else for a certainty:

http://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/blog?ContentRecord_id=444bbd1d-60db-49bf-beb4-42e593b5c1e1

I don't see a whole lot of people screaming about their constitutional rights in response to this.

[Werthead]

If we want to protect school children we ought to keep people who don't belong in the building, out.

Good point, actually. Here in the UK many schools are surrounded by tall fences with heavy-duty gates that are locked during school hours and monitored closely during lunch hours. Visitors often have to be buzzed in from the gates (some schools also have cameras monitoring the gates). Is this sort of security common in the USA or can anyone wander onto school premises whenever they want?

[maize]

They day will come when there will be enough votes for the passage of legislation banning all gun. I hope that it will come sooner than later. When that day come, I don't think they'll be able to successfully oppose the confiscation of their toys.

Honestly I think 80% of this country would rather live in a country with no firearms at all. They just think it's impossible to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Which I don't agree with but see their point.

[Kelli Fury]

For people who seriously are concerned about home safety, numerous studies of convicted home invaders say the number one deterrent is a noisy dog. Anyone who has lived in a bad neighborhood knows that a gun is more of a reason for someone to try and rob you than a reason not to (I know when I did I certainly didn't own anything anyone would want to steal except a gun if I'd brought my hunting rifle with me). So if you're worried, get a corgi.

[SerMixalot]

Good point, actually. Here in the UK many schools are surrounded by tall fences with heavy-duty gates that are locked during school hours and monitored closely during lunch hours. Visitors often have to be buzzed in from the gates (some schools also have cameras monitoring the gates). Is this sort of security common in the USA or can anyone wander onto school premises whenever they want?

Many if not most schools lock the front door (including Sandy Hook), having to be buzzed in, but it is usually an informal process, relatively easy to get in. I can envision more schools enlisting security officers who escort people to and from the entrances, but schools need to have people coming and going all day long.

[ShowOverBooks]

It isn't just the guns that are the problem. Canada has lots of guns, and not so many shootings per capita (though I think it has gone up in recent years, due to gangs).

It's the culture. The rugged individualist who when wronged (in his crazy eyes) grabs a gun and deals out 'payback'. It is the glamourization of criminals in TV, movies, and rap. Take a look at the current line up of TV shows and notice how many deal with crime - mostly violent crime.

It's the cowboy mentality of the federal government which performs illegal pre-emptive attacks against other nations.

It is the dog-eat-dog economy which says you scrape together the bucks you need to avoid starving or freezing ANYWAY YOU CAN.

[Howling Mad]

Given Obama is now in the 'safe zone' and doesn't need to worry about re-election, what are the chances of there being major changes in gun control laws in response to this? I can't see how a massacre of this kind, against innocent children, can be ignored as the shootings of adults or high school kids have in the past.

100% BO has wanted to go here from the begining. This is a ready made political opportunity for which progressives will seize like a dog with a bone.

Oh, we are going to continue this? Okay. No substantive role, no. It aided the speed of the USSR's counter-attacks in 1943 and 1944, but no more than that. Lend-Lease did not start arriving in the USSR in substantive numbers until late in 1942, and the actual weapons sent to the USSR (tanks and planes) were mostly not used on the front lines, because they were inferior to Soviet models.

How long would Britain have lasted without US assistance? If the US sits out completely Britain/Australia/India fall or are neutralized and all Axis resources redirected to the east.

[Guest Raidne]

Great article in the Atlantic on this, called the case for more guns. There are 300 million firearms in the United States - I've never heard a feasible plan for eradicating them. Nor will I, because it simply isn't possible. That ship has sailed.

Given that, we might think about expanding the laws allowing people to carry weapons. That, or post more armed guards everywhere.

[ShowOverBooks]

Good point, actually. Here in the UK many schools are surrounded by tall fences with heavy-duty gates that are locked during school hours and monitored closely during lunch hours. Visitors often have to be buzzed in from the gates (some schools also have cameras monitoring the gates). Is this sort of security common in the USA or can anyone wander onto school premises whenever they want?

You know fences cost money, right?

'My money is more important than your kids' lives.'

[Robin Of House Hill]

Lorien, precisely how many times has some random psycho kicked your door in at 2 am? You can give an estimate if you cant remember the exact number, since I'm sure it's so high, because why else would a rational normal person bring such a thing up, right? You might want to look into a better door, or at least some locks.

I have a cricket bat in my room. Unless this made-up intruder who has never busted down my door and never will is armed with a gun, I am 100% confident that me and my cricket bat can take him down fairly quickly. And he wont be armed with a gun, btw, because guns are nearly impossible for normal citizens to get in this country.

But hey, say this imaginary person does bust into my house. And I'm ARMED WITH A MOTHERFUCKIN GUN YEEHAW.

But oh no...

The criminal has outsmarted me ....

He is wearing an Iron Man suit :0

From 1994 to 2000, an average of 3,600,000 home invasions occurred each year.

Next time, try using facts.