Dany's betrayer is... Barristan Selmy?

[Khal GoGo]

Bit of a crackpot with little to no real evidence but...

Just a quote I picked up on a re-read of ADWD regarding Ser Barristan- "Ser Jorah would not turn his eyes away. He loved me as a women where Barristan loves me only as his queen", regarding Dany's bare breast after she's talked with Xaro. What I see here is his love for duty, and by extension as LC of the Kingsguard, the monarch. What would his reaction be when he discovers Aegon, the apparent rightful king? Assuming Daenerys refuses to follow her 'nephew', would he stick with her? Its a tricky one. Could Barristan the Bold be the betrayal for love?

I know it might seem a bit unlikely, but I could see GRRM maybe putting it in as yet another massive shock to readers. Hell, it was a massive shock to me when I had the idea and it might not even happen! :P

[Lady Sansa Stark]

For Barristan Selmy to follow Aegon, he would have to know whether he's the real Aegon or not. Barristan Selmy isn't just going to believe people who say Aegon's still alive. If, however, he does believe them because of unknown reasons, I think he will try to convince her to join Aegon's cause. She should do that if Aegon's real, since she's all talking about being the rightful Queen and stuff, so... But I wouldn't put that past her.

He won't be the betrayal for love. He doesn't love her as Jorah does, he loves her as his queen, as you already said. If he is going to 'betray' her like that, it will be the betrayal of blood, since she's of the Targaryen blood, but Aegon of course as well. So, he'll betray her for her own 'blood'.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

He won't be the betrayal for love. He doesn't love her as Jorah does, he loves her as his queen, as you already said. If he is going to 'betray' her like that, it will be the betrayal of blood, since she's of the Targaryen blood, but Aegon of course as well. So, he'll betray her for her own 'blood'.

That makes a lot of sense. Love doesn't seem to be overly involved here (or at least no more than it is everywhere), but blood definitely is. Though until now I've always parrotted Dany's line of thought that the betrayal for blood was MMD...

[AdXRoss]

Barristan could perhaps turn betrayer in this fashion, though I'm still not convinced that Jorah Mormont's actions actually constitute the betrayal for love, and I got the impression Mirri Maz Duur was the blood betrayer.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

That makes a lot of sense. Love doesn't seem to be overly involved here (or at least no more than it is everywhere), but blood definitely is. Though until now I've always parrotted Dany's line of thought that the betrayal for blood was MMD...

Yeah, I thought that that was the general explanation for it, but well.. If Barristan Selmy betrays her like this thing with Aegon, and it's in line with the House of the Undying, then it will be for her 'blood'.

[Khal GoGo]

I personally don't think it would necessarily classify as blood- Dany has the same Targ blood after all, in fact, you might say she has 'purer' blood as both her parents were Targs. I'm also not convinced Jorah got the betrayal for love- the way I see it he stopped betraying her for love.

I just think it could be a neat trick, to make it a love for duty rather than the expected love for a person. I could be (and likely am) miles off, but I like the theory.

[Ser Wun Wun]

That would be one hell of a shock. I've also read speculation that Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne (which I don't believe), and that since Barristan loved her once he might betray Dany for Aegon at her instigation. Such a thing would go against everything we know of Barristan's character though. The man is stubbornly loyal, almost to the point of fault. So while I do think he will council Dany to join forces with Aegon, I don't believe he would betray her if she chose not to.

Off topic, but I like the idea that the treason for love will come from Aegon. I could see Dany arriving at Westeros with her army and dragons, gladly accepting a marriage alliance with Aegon because she very much wants him to be real. Because if he is then Dany is no longer the only Targ and she has family for once, and that is what Dany desires most of all.

The betrayal would stem from two sources: 1.) Aegon will be in love with Arianne, who is on her way to meet him as of the end of ADWD. 2.) Dorne, or more specifically Arianne and the Sand Snakes, will blame Dany for what happened to Quentyn. Setting up this event was the purpose of Quentyn's arc imo. The Dornish will want Dany dead, and Aegon will go along with it because he loves Arianne.

I see the betrayal occurring during their wedding or some type of celebratory feast, which seems to be a theme in this series. The Dornish will slaughter Dany's people and take control of 1 (or more) of her dragons, but Dany will escape the massacre somehow with at least 1 dragon. This is what will start the 2nd Dance of the Dragons, splitting the realm apart once more just when it seemed to be healed.

OK, that's the end of my off topic speculation. Just had the urge to write it all out, your thread seemed as good a place as any. :P

[Lady Sansa Stark]

I personally don't think it would necessarily classify as blood- Dany has the same Targ blood after all, in fact, you might say she has 'purer' blood as both her parents were Targs. I'm also not convinced Jorah got the betrayal for love- the way I see it he stopped betraying her for love.

I just think it could be a neat trick, to make it a love for duty rather than the expected love for a person. I could be (and likely am) miles off, but I like the theory.

But the 'love' part most probably refers to 'love for Daenerys' or another person, not love for duty. Otherwise it would be a betrayal for duty, right? ;)

[Khal GoGo]

But the 'love' part most probably refers to 'love for Daenerys' or another person, not love for duty. Otherwise it would be a betrayal for duty, right? ;)

A betrayal for the love of duty ;) I guess its open to interpretation :P

Off topic, but I like the idea that the treason for love will come from Aegon. I could see Dany arriving at Westeros with her army and dragons, gladly accepting a marriage alliance with Aegon because she very much wants him to be real. Because if he is then Dany is no longer the only Targ and she has family for once, and that is what Dany desires most of all.

The betrayal would stem from two sources: 1.) Aegon will be in love with Arianne, who is on her way to meet him as of the end of ADWD. 2.) Dorne, or more specifically Arianne and the Sand Snakes, will blame Dany for what happened to Quentyn. Setting up this event was the purpose of Quentyn's arc imo. The Dornish will want Dany dead, and Aegon will go along with it because he loves Arianne.

Although I am VERY interested in this theory. Maybe this could be the betrayal for blood, on Arianne/Aegons behalf for their brother/cousin and then Barristan could still betray for love. Yes I know I'm clutching at straws! Oh well, it was an idea :dunno:

[JonisnoGarySnow]

I think that this would be an interesting take on the betrayal for love, rather than love of Dany it would be love of duty... See I never bought Jorah as the betrayer for love, because he didn't betray her because he loved her. He started betraying her when he didn't even know her and stopped when he started to love her.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

A betrayal for the love of duty ;) I guess its open to interpretation :P

Yes, it's a valid interpretation to say: "A betrayal for duty can be seen as a betrayal for the love of duty, i.e. for love". But this makes the whole thing very arbitrary. Why is the betrayal for gold not a betrayal for the love of gold by the same reasoning?

Thus I expect the betrayal for love to have something to do with actual love, not the generic construct "love of" which you can put in front of anything the betrayal would be really about.

Of course, that doesn't mean that the duty interpretation is impossible - maybe I'm just overly nitpicky with the wording of the prophecy.

[Ser Lepus]

Dany should have answered: "Only three betrayals? Hooray! I'm going to be the less betrayed monarch in the whole world!"

Seriously, if you want to become a king or queen, betrayals for vengeanze/blood, greed/gold and love are to be expected, she shouldn't obsess so much about that. I think she has already been betrayed more than three times (Mirri, Jorah, Brown Ben Plumm, at least one of his ghiscarian advisors,...etc.).

[Lord Ben]

I still think Dany will be the one doing the betraying.

-One for blood (Killed her baby to help Drogo)

-One for gold (When she got her slave army)

-One for love (upcoming)

[richard_ba]

The second treason is Brown Ben Plumm, the third is Aegon

[straits]

The second treason is Brown Ben Plumm, the third is Aegon

Aegon owes her no allegiance to betray her.

[Foxhound]

Plumm also makes it clear he didn't betray Dany for gold, but because he didn't believe she could win.

[the Scorpion Knight]

That would be one hell of a shock. I've also read speculation that Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne (which I don't believe), and that since Barristan loved her once he might betray Dany for Aegon at her instigation. Such a thing would go against everything we know of Barristan's character though. The man is stubbornly loyal, almost to the point of fault. So while I do think he will council Dany to join forces with Aegon, I don't believe he would betray her if she chose not to.

Off topic, but I like the idea that the treason for love will come from Aegon. I could see Dany arriving at Westeros with her army and dragons, gladly accepting a marriage alliance with Aegon because she very much wants him to be real. Because if he is then Dany is no longer the only Targ and she has family for once, and that is what Dany desires most of all.

The betrayal would stem from two sources: 1.) Aegon will be in love with Arianne, who is on her way to meet him as of the end of ADWD. 2.) Dorne, or more specifically Arianne and the Sand Snakes, will blame Dany for what happened to Quentyn. Setting up this event was the purpose of Quentyn's arc imo. The Dornish will want Dany dead, and Aegon will go along with it because he loves Arianne.

I agree on the person (hell i think he'll do all three)

I disagree on the why

I think aegon will brtray dany for the love of peace and sansa

[Lord Damian]

I agree on the person (hell i think he'll do all three)

I disagree on the why

I think aegon will brtray dany for the love of peace and sansa

I too think that Aegon and Sansa will wed and will rule, alas though, it will be brief.

[Fire Eater]

For Barristan Selmy to follow Aegon, he would have to know whether he's the real Aegon or not. Barristan Selmy isn't just going to believe people who say Aegon's still alive. If, however, he does believe them because of unknown reasons, I think he will try to convince her to join Aegon's cause. She should do that if Aegon's real, since she's all talking about being the rightful Queen and stuff, so... But I wouldn't put that past her.

He won't be the betrayal for love. He doesn't love her as Jorah does, he loves her as his queen, as you already said. If he is going to 'betray' her like that, it will be the betrayal of blood, since she's of the Targaryen blood, but Aegon of course as well. So, he'll betray her for her own 'blood'.

Plus, Barristan swore his sword to her, and he doesn't change kings unless the old king he swore his sword to is dead. He didn't swear his sword to Robert until after Aerys and Rhaegar died, and he didn't swear his sword to Dany until after Robert died.

[Lion of Judah]

Him betraying Dany for Aegon would be a lateral move and that makes no sense. What does he achieve by flip flopping?