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Ice Turtle

If Rhaegar had kidnapped some other woman...

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Would've the Rebellion still happened?

Looking at the political situation Lyanna seems as the worst possible woman to kidnap /run away with in whole Westeros. So I've asked myself: Was there even any worse choice?

looking at other daughters of the great houses:

Cat -kidnapping Cat would've been just as bad as kidnapping Lyanna, and if Brandon had been in Riverlands he would've gone to KL and Rebellion would've probably happed almost the same way. Only possible wildcard would be young LF.

Cersei - Almost as bad as kidnapping Lyanna. If Targs had stolen another child from Tywin it would've been way past last straw for him. He had no alliances like Tullys/Starks/Arryns/Barratheons but I think that he could have proposed to marry Lysa to gain Hoster's support and probably even support of the rest of the northern powerblock

Lysa - I really don't know. She had no betrothed, even LF preferred Cat and her father called Brandon a gallant fool so he wouldn't have ridden to KL himself. And if the kidnapping had happened after she'd lost her illegitimate child I think that Hoster would let it be.

Other women - I don't think that Rhaegar kidnapping any other woman could have caused rebellion.

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He should have kidnapped an 'other woman' that was a wildling, as is tradition.

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I don't know if Lyanna was kidnapped. Either way, Lyanna absconding with Rhaegar lit the tinder box. I agree that if Rhaegar had gone off with any other woman, it wouldn't have erupted into war.

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"Kidnapping" Cat might have caused a major issue but I am not sure Cersei or Lysa would have. There would be no need to abscond with them because neither was betrothed to anyone and Tywin and Hoster would have been very agreeable to the match.

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He coulda kidnapped anyone else and, even if the Rebellion still happened, the Loyalists would've squashed it.

Instead, he kidnapped a girl whose betrothed was one of about 5 men in the kingdom who could kill him over it. Rhaegar was an idiot.

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Well, if he had kidnapped his mum, Aerys would probably be pretty angry and it would've caused quite a mess. :cool4:

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If he kidnapped Selyse, he would've been sssoooo sorry... :laugh:

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Well, if he had kidnapped his mum, Aerys would probably be pretty angry and it would've caused quite a mess. :cool4:

Technically yes, but even Targs usually don't sleep with their mothers, besides I have a feeling that it still would have caused less trouble than kidnapping Lyanna. I think that most lords would actually side with Rhaegar not Aerys, though kidnapping one's own mother with intention to sire a child on her isn't the best proof of sanity...

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Wasn't Cersei supposed to marry Rhaegar anyway, but Aerys married him to Elia just to piss off Tywin?

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Kidnapping Cersei option made me laugh. Tywin wanted the two to marry :D

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This is something I actually would like to know more about: Does the prophecy specify whom Rhaegar has to impregnate to get Head of the Dragon No.3? Somehow I doubt Lyanna Stark, only daughter of Rickard of House Stark is spelled out on paper. If the prophecy only refers to an union of ice and fire why does Rhaegar not go for someone in the Barbrey Ryswell, second to third tier house range? Would have still been a scandal but neither would any Great House be deadly offended nor the Martells feel as threathened as they would with Lyanna.

The whole thing makes me believe that Rhaegar was as much motivated by the prophecy as he was by lust/love

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This is something I actually would like to know more about: Does the prophecy specify whom Rhaegar has to impregnate to get Head of the Dragon No.3? Somehow I doubt Lyanna Stark, only daughter of Rickard of House Stark is spelled out on paper. If the prophecy only refers to an union of ice and fire why does Rhaegar not go for someone in the Barbrey Ryswell, second to third tier house range? Would have still been a scandal but neither would any Great House be deadly offended nor the Martells feel as threathened as they would with Lyanna.

The whole thing makes me believe that Rhaegar was as much motivated by the prophecy as he was by lust/love

We haven't seen the prophecy spelled out. We don't know how close the version Rhaegar had read is to the original one. Hell, we don't even know whether there was an actual prophecy, or just Old Nan the Elder spinning a fancy story for some kids.

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Kidnapping Cersei option made me laugh. Tywin wanted the two to marry :D

Yes but almost no one knew about Rhaegar/Lyanna marriage (if it even happened) so Rhaegar making Cersei his lover or even a second wife wouldn't make Tywin too happy at least not before he could sack KL and kill Rhaegar's first wife and their children...

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i know tywin wouldn't mind that much he would just demand a marriage right then and there if he took cersei.

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i know tywin wouldn't mind that much he would just demand a marriage right then and there if he took cersei.

Sending a FM to finish off Elia and co whilst he's at it too......

I imagine Rhaegar would have died a lot sooner if he 'kidnapped' the Queen of Thorns

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Wasn't Cersei supposed to marry Rhaegar anyway, but Aerys married him to Elia just to piss off Tywin?

No, nothing official, just a wish, an expectation by Tywin and Cersei that she would become Rhaegar's wife. Aerys rejected the pairing on the grounds that he wouldn't wed his heir to his servant's daughter, or something along those lines.

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I think only Cat would have had the same impact as Lyanna as far as being "kidnapped" goes. Lysa only got married to Jon in order to connect houses during the rebellion, Tywin would have been happy to see Rhaegar choose Cersei and no other woman would have instigated Brandon's fury enough to make him call out for Rhaegar's death

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I think only Cat would have had the same impact as Lyanna as far as being "kidnapped" goes. Lysa only got married to Jon in order to connect houses during the rebellion, Tywin would have been happy to see Rhaegar choose Cersei and no other woman would have instigated Brandon's fury enough to make him call out for Rhaegar's death

:agree: I think taking Cersei would have caused some trouble, but yes the Lannisters arent exactly liked and don't have that many allies.

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I think if he had kidnapped Cersei, Tywin would have been mad but perhaps he wouldn't have sacked Kings Landing in the way he did, because Cersei would have been a bit like a hostage

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probably, especially Cat and Lysa

Cat was Brandon's bride, it would make Brandon go down to King's Landing

Lysa was Cat's sister (not married to Jon Arryn at that time) and the Tullys wound probably ask for help from other houses

Cersei, Tywin was already with a rocky relationship with Aerys, he would be really mad if his daugheter was kidnapped

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