Tyrion's Arms

[Tommens Cat]

And I can see how being a dwarf may have is own benefits. Think of mountain clan battle. There were knights with him and I don't think a person is going to turn their back top a knight to fight a dwarf.

Edit spelling, I'm using my nexus right now and can't properly proof read

[Tommens Cat]

Book Tyrion initially was shown to be quite agile and surprisingly strong despite his size.

Eventually (probably after meeting Peter Dinklage, who has more or less come to personify Tyrion globally) GRRM realized dwarfism is actually quite debilitating, painful to the joints, and severely hinders strength/mobility, and Tyrion starts to lose much of his old agility by ADWD. He even comments he wouldn't be able to sit on Penny's dog/pig during jousting IIRC.

Really the oddest thing is how he managed to kill Shae. Yeah, she's a woman and yes there was a chain, but Shae is still had a huge size advantage over him (and show-shae at least is in pretty good shape...) and I don't see how a neck chain like that could strangle someone without breaking.

He has been in battles and got his ass best. People think he owned every battle he didn't. A twenty year old dwarf who taken a few mace hits and other injuries is pretty worse off making their joints and muscles even more of a problem.

I think tyrion would still be fit had he not been to battle

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Tyrion's arms are in proportion to his torso, but both are out of proportion to his legs. The legs are the main focus of his dwarfism. Every problem he experiences is linked to his legs, but his armwork is always described pretty good.

Imagine a short, but still in the ordinary, guy and shorten his legs by another five to ten inches and you get Tyrion. Healthy waist-up, but dwarf below.

[Ludd]

I thought that in the first battle he was in, Tyrion survived in part because of his size - as a small target he was harder to hit with arrows. He can also duck and weave. Knights in battles will go for other knights rather than smaller squires so I guess Tyrion would NOT be a target.

In the Blackwater the whole point was the valour of Pod who saved him.

The duel at the Eyrie was a battle which Tyrion won by his WITS - the whole point - he knew Bronn was a better fighter so chose the duel as his escape.

Not too much plot armour IMHO

[LordStoneheart]

Plot armor only exists if looking at the story with willingness to point out un-realism. And that's not the point of reading stories at all.

Tyrion was created by the author with a specific arc in mind and he's not at the end of, that doesn't mean plot armor. Anything that happens in between is development, not plot armor.

[KOM]

he survives because he can take out people's knees, right? fairly weakly armoed, people aren't used to it. :)

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Guess that's it, or something like that :cool4:

There's a dwarfish saying: 'All trees are felled at ground-level' - although this is said to be an excessively bowdlerized translation for a saw which more literally means, 'When his hands are higher than your head, his groin is level with your teeth'.

[AsharaSunborn]

I thought this would be about his coat of arms or something, not his actual arms :/

[Woman of War]

What??!

It isn`t. Tyrion survived some really dangerous, and for man of his capabilities, lethal situations. As for others, at least their survival isn`t going against all odds.

But Maden, main characters have to have so-called plot armour! They carry the story, they are there so we can identify with them and are willing to follow with suspense. If an author exchanged his leading characters after every dangerous situation they have been in we readers would soon lose interest since we never have time to get invested into their fate. That's why journalists try to personalize stories about catastrophes, why we register with sadness that 1000 unknown people have drowned somewhere in Bangladesh while we are moved if three kids have drowned in a lake round the corner. Not because humans are evilly dismissing people "elsewhere" but because we tend to bond to those who are close by, literally or spiritually. And a journalist tries to get us invested into his or her story, and an author does that even more. They need characters who lead us through the story and who live long enough for that. What a coincidence Sam had an obsidian knife handy and Arya met Jac'qen! So much plot armor, really, and just in time!

On the other side, if main characters had no dangerous things happen to them, if we weren't to fear for their wellbeing the story would simply be boring. They must be in danger, the more they are in the middle of the story the more in danger, on the other hand they cannot all die. So they need "plot armor" in order to stay alive and to keep us hooked.

There has been that nice analysis by someone, forgot whom, that Martin on purpose builds fake main characters like Ned and Robb so he can kill them off and the necessary plot armor for his main characters Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya is not as obvious.

So "accusing" a character of plot armor, as if it were his or her fault is nonsense, it expresses that the author has good reasons to keep them in the story while not letting them become boring after a while. And if people declare a character has undeserved plot armor they obviously do not like this character and wish him or her to leave the story - while the author thinks otherwise.

The biggest "plot armor" was imo sitting in the fire and breeding dragons instead of being BBQ. But in Daenerys' case it has a reason: magic and it serves a purpose: dragons. Tyrion's "plot armor" when he falls into the river serves a purpose: infecting Connington and the reason we will see. And if Tyrion to a degree is able to fight with his short arms it serves the purpose to emphazise that he has not only mental but as well physical courage, to show this is important for Martin. If a main character stays in the story it's not because Martin forgot to kill him, it's for a reason yet to see. He yet has a role to play, simply.

So the whole debate who has the biggest plot armor only makes sense if people enjoy themselves pointing out the most twisted ways NOT to die. If people accuse their most disliked character of plot armor and deny any plot armor for their favorite they are unintentionally funny.

[Morienthar]

He isn't one of Tolkien's Dwarves,So he is subject to all the problems faced by those afflicted with dwarfism including out of proportion limbs,But due the muscle getting compacted,they are generally stronger than people of their size aught to be.

I should know one of these guys beat me in arm wrestling a while ago.

[Woman of War]

And there are many athletes with achondroplasia. Apart from that, follow what people can do at the paralympics.

[Mladen]

snip

I completely understand the need of plot armor, but I honestly believe it should be tied with common sense. You have a dwarf that can survive any battle, and that`s pretty much unrealistic as when in LOTR Legolas climbed on oliphant and killed it. I don`t mind him being rescued or anything, but when it`s contrary to all odds, or even logic, that`s when I have problems.

The difference between Tyrion and others you mentioned like Jon, Arya, and Daenerys is that none of the last three engaged in impossible for them to survive, situation and that their survival was also circumstantial and provided sometimes by others. Arya survived the horror of RW due to Sandor, Dany is well with her dragons because of bond between them, Jon climbed the Wall, but so did the others. It`s not like there is no chance for them to outlive the dangerous situation. But, here we have completely different situation. Tyrion, unlike Dany who was just commanding from a tent, or Jon who was on 700 ft high Wall, was in middle of battle, where the fights were thickest. I am sorry, but for him to survive all that, you need a thick plot armor.

Whether it is neccessery or not, author has to follow some logic. If he doesn`t, Tyrion will become Chuck Norris of Westeros. And that`s just sad.

[Morienthar]

I completely understand the need of plot armor, but I honestly believe it should be tied with common sense. You have a dwarf that can survive any battle, and that`s pretty much unrealistic as when in LOTR Legolas climbed on oliphant and killed it. I don`t mind him being rescued or anything, but when it`s contrary to all odds, or even logic, that`s when I have problems.

No the difference is Legolas is decidedly Supernatural,with super human abilities,while Tyrion is a dwarf with almost zero fighting capabilities.

[Mladen]

No the difference is Legolas is decidedly Supernatural,with super human abilities,while Tyrion is a dwarf with almost zero fighting capabilities.

Well, Elves are warriors, but I doubt that even they are able to preform what Legolas did in the movie when he killed the oliphant.

[mrunderhill]

Well, Elves are warriors, but I doubt that even they are able to preform what Legolas did in the movie when he killed the oliphant.

That's in the films alone and there are many silly moments in those films, which I would call poor. Though as said elves are superhuman. They can run across rope at speed and walk on snow.

[Morienthar]

Well, Elves are warriors, but I doubt that even they are able to preform what Legolas did in the movie when he killed the oliphant.

Maybe not how he did it in the movie,But that was only in the movie.

But these are the guys who killed Balrogs by the hundreds and took down dragons for dinner during the first war against Morgoth.

[Mladen]

That's in the films alone and there are many silly moments in those films, which I would call poor. Though as said elves are superhuman. They can run across rope at speed and walk on snow.

Maybe not how he did it in the movie,But that was only in the movie.

But these are the guys who killed Balrogs by the hundreds and took down dragons for dinner during the first war against Morgoth.

Killing oliphant was just an example.

Elves were purposely created as magical and mystical creatures. Their powers like Elrond`s, or Galadriel`s is part of them, and that`s their start line. I used Legolas` scene from movie as example where natural power or strength is streched too much. No elf would ever be able to do that, as no dwarf would ever survived so many battles.

[mrunderhill]

Maybe not how he did it in the movie,But that was only in the movie.

But these are the guys who killed Balrogs by the hundreds and took down dragons for dinner during the first war against Morgoth.

How could they kill Balrogs by the hundreds when there was only around 5-7 of them? I don't think an Elf is ever recorded as taking down a dragon either.

Anyway Tyrion and Arya are the authors two favourite characters and both require a suspension of reality when reading about their fights/battles.

[Dagon Greyjoy]

In an one on one fight, Tyrion is fucked... But in a thick melee, odds are most people wouldn't really see him (and even if they saw him wouldn't focus on'im), their minds focused on taller opponents. Tyrion only gotta get medieval on people's knees and then their necks with his axe.

[Penguin king]

He survives because GRRM wants him to be alive. He has the strongest plot armor ever seen in literature...

Hyperbole much?

I can think of loads of characters in literature with titanium thick plot armor. Arthur Dent, Harry flashman, Richard Sharpe, Rincewind.... Not to mention all the characters in tie in novels, and comic books.