The Last of Us -- Quickly becoming my favorite game ever.

[Francis Buck]

It'd be interesting to hear what you mean with "one little wrinkle". Although I think I know what it is you mean with it.

I should clarify that I didn't predict the whole ending or anything. I just kinda figured that when you got to the Fireflies, you'd have to fight them, which would only make sense if they wanted to harm Joel/Ellie, and then I put that together with the idea that Ellie would probably have to die in order for them to get the cure. I totally expected either Joel or Ellie to die, so them both surviving definitely surprised me. The wrinkle I was talking about is how Joel lied to Ellie about everything. That was a big "twist" for me, and it completely changed my perception of Joel as a character (and it also is part of what made the story so fantastic). It actually made me not really like Joel anymore, and kind of look back on the story and see him as a person that is sort of tragically damaged beyond repair.

It's interesting reading in other threads on NeoGAF how people are interpreting the whole thing. Some people one-hundred percent sympathize with Joel and think he absolutely did the right thing -- more than I expected, actually. I'm not really sure where I fall on it. I suppose, in that situation, the best thing would have been to wait for Ellie to wake up and let her decide. But is that really the right thing? There's a reason we don't let fourteen year olds make life-or-death decisions. Then again, Ellie is hardly a typical fourteen year old, and she had already been through more than most adults. So yeah, it's a difficult situation obviously, with no real good answer. There's not even a guarantee that they could have gotten the cure to work. Or what they would have done with it once they had one. Realistically, the best thing for Ellie may just be to have a ton of kids and pass on her resistance through good old-fashioned natural selection (it would be interesting if, in a sequel set some years into the future, we hear about a growing population of immune humans -- the descendants of Ellie).

Another interesting thing I've read about is how people reacted to the part with the doctors. A lot of people didn't like that you had to kill them, or at least the one. Others unloaded on them in a vengeful rage. Personally, I was so immersed in the game, and so tense from the previous section (I had like a sliver of health and barely made it through) that when I saw the doctor take the scalpel, my first reaction was to shoot him, and the one next to him kind of by accident (it was just like a blur of tension and violence). I didn't kill the third one, because it didn't seem necessary, but I know that I didn't really feel like I was having some vengeful blood lust sated by shooting them. It was a very interesting thing to put into the end of the game.

But yeah, I absolutely loved the whole ending sequence, from the elevator onwards. I've gone back and rewatched it several times on Youtube. The editing, the music, the direction, it's just phenomenal. And that moment when Ellie asks Joel to swear to her that everything he said was true, with that trademark Gustavo Santaolalla flutter, was really when I knew how much I loved the game. I definitely think that Ellie knew Joel was lying, and it seemed like she was accepting that lie in the end, as if she wanted it to be true in some way (but did she, deep down?).

Naughty Dog, in the past, has said that if they make a sequel, it won't be about Joel and Ellie. They said that their story is entirely encapsulated within this game. And I kind of like it that way. I feel like seeing their future would kind of ruin the ending of this game. I absolutely want another game set in this world though. I can't imagine seeing this kind of technology on PS4.

Did Naughty Dog actually confirm that they would be doing single-player DLC? If so that's awesome. I can't wait.

[JonArryn]

I should clarify that I didn't predict the whole ending or anything. I just kinda figured that when you got to the Fireflies, you'd have to fight them, which would only make sense if they wanted to harm Joel/Ellie, and then I put that together with the idea that Ellie would probably have to die in order for them to get the cure. I totally expected either Joel or Ellie to die, so them both surviving definitely surprised me. The wrinkle I was talking about is how Joel lied to Ellie about everything. That was a big "twist" for me, and it completely changed my perception of Joel as a character (and it also is part of what made the story so fantastic). It actually made me not really like Joel anymore, and kind of look back on the story and see him as a person that is sort of tragically damaged beyond repair.

It's interesting reading in other threads on NeoGAF how people are interpreting the whole thing. Some people one-hundred percent sympathize with Joel and think he absolutely did the right thing -- more than I expected, actually. I'm not really sure where I fall on it. I suppose, in that situation, the best thing would have been to wait for Ellie to wake up and let her decide. But is that really the right thing? There's a reason we don't let fourteen year olds make life-or-death decisions. Then again, Ellie is hardly a typical fourteen year old, and she had already been through more than most adults. So yeah, it's a difficult situation obviously, with no real good answer. There's not even a guarantee that they could have gotten the cure to work. Or what they would have done with it once they had one. Realistically, the best thing for Ellie may just be to have a ton of kids and pass on her resistance through good old-fashioned natural selection (it would be interesting if, in a sequel set some years into the future, we hear about a growing population of immune humans -- the descendants of Ellie).

Another interesting thing I've read about is how people reacted to the part with the doctors. A lot of people didn't like that you had to kill them, or at least the one. Others unloaded on them in a vengeful rage. Personally, I was so immersed in the game, and so tense from the previous section (I had like a sliver of health and barely made it through) that when I saw the doctor take the scalpel, my first reaction was to shoot him, and the one next to him kind of by accident (it was just like a blur of tension and violence). I didn't kill the third one, because it didn't seem necessary, but I know that I didn't really feel like I was having some vengeful blood lust sated by shooting them. It was a very interesting thing to put into the end of the game.

But yeah, I absolutely loved the whole ending sequence, from the elevator onwards. I've gone back and rewatched it several times on Youtube. The editing, the music, the direction, it's just phenomenal. And that moment when Ellie asks Joel to swear to her that everything he said was true, with that trademark Gustavo Santaolalla flutter, was really when I knew how much I loved the game. I definitely think that Ellie knew Joel was lying, and it seemed like she was accepting that lie in the end, as if she wanted it to be true in some way (but did she, deep down?).

Naughty Dog, in the past, has said that if they make a sequel, it won't be about Joel and Ellie. They said that their story is entirely encapsulated within this game. And I kind of like it that way. I feel like seeing their future would kind of ruin the ending of this game. I absolutely want another game set in this world though. I can't imagine seeing this kind of technology on PS4.

Did Naughty Dog actually confirm that they would be doing single-player DLC? If so that's awesome. I can't wait.

I too felt more and more as you went through the last chapter, that maybe Ellie was the one that was going to die, and not Joel, which I think many, including myself, thought from the start. But the "twist" in this game is absolutely amazing. There isn't a big plot twist in any way, it is if you count him lying to her though. The big twist to me, was that the main character was a much darker and different person than I thought after playing through the Summer and Fall chapters. With that lie, he does a thing you don't expect from him. He actually starts out as a sort of hero, whom you think has a good moral compass. But gradually it becomes more and more clear, that he is indeed a very dark man, or at least darker. Oft times in media you follow a main character that do despicable things, but in the end, that character often does something which show that they're basically good-hearted, and then you feel satisfaction. But nah, not in this game. They hit you on the nose, and the last thing you see Joel do, is the worst thing, at least against Ellie, a person he loves as a daughter, and it does indeed show that he is a man beyond repair, as you said. He's not a bad man deep down, but he is too broken after everything that has happened to him. Another question is, is he a villain or a hero? The obvious answer is neither though. We're treading in a morally grey area here. But you see more clearly as the game goes on, that he ain't a good person if you judge him by his actions. Especially killing the guys in the cabin and Marlene when she was helpless. He killed the guys in the cabin because they went against him, not because it was necessary, the same goes for Marlene, but there I also think he did it so she wouldn't go after them again.

He'd kill the world to protect Ellie, and that is completely understandable. The character of Joel is so good, because you see what shapes him, and that follows through the whole game. His motivations are so understandable. That's what I think the game do differently, and that makes the prologue maybe the most important part in the whole game. Much, if not all of Joel's actions stem from his daughter's death.

I think Joel did the right thing by saving Ellie. Who is to say that Ellie's life is worth sacrificing for a cure? If the price for obtaining a cure is to kill innocent people, how can that be worth it? Who can judge who gets to live or not. What's worse is that he lied about it to Ellie though. After everything they went through he told that huge lie. He did it for her best, but it wasn't fair to her. She deserved to know. But Joel needed to have someone to care about. Someone that could fill the room his daughter left. And it's very clear that he doesn't want to care about Ellie at first, because he's afraid what can happen if he does and then loses her, could he himself cope with it? That was a pretty egotistical thing if you think about it, but so true to human nature. Was it because he didn't think he could handle the loss if she died? I think that was the main reason, because after all, she was a cure, and he was a man who fit the job very well. But when he then changes view and starts bonding with Ellie, that makes it so much stronger.

I thought both of them were gonna die when he was holding her running towards the elevator in the end.

And I think an important thing is that his daughter is killed by a human. That makes it more understandable when he kills people that go after him and Ellie, and why he's so brutal against them. If she'd been eaten by a bear, would he be as ruthless against people? I don't know.

The game is great because there is so much to think about. Not just in plot, but as I mentioned before, about human nature. And that's why it is probably the best story told in a video game. I haven't played a game before where I really thought this much about why and how the characters are as they are. And if that isn't a testiment that the game is great, I don't know what is.

And I've written a lot about Joel, but Ellie is a equally nuanced and realised character. She captures the innocent yet roughness she's gotten from being born in a post-apocalyptic world.

I actually thought Ellie was gonna find out the truth and kill him in the end. Although she probably wouldn't go through with a thing like that, it was just a feeling I got. I definitely think she knew he was lying, maybe not the extent of it, but she knew he lied about something. She was a very smart girl, and it felt like she saw through him there. But maybe she just accepted it anyway? Maybe she also wanted stability and someone to care about? Although if given the choice, Ellie probably would agree to the operation, but is it a fair choice for a 14 year old? It ain't, in my opinion.

Anyway, this got way too long, but there are so many things to discuss regarding the game. Hopefully I got something understandable out.

And yes, they've confirmed single player dlc, I think. But it's not revealed who you're gonna play as yet.

[JonArryn]

I'm really frustrated that this is PS3 only, because a) I'm horrible at console games and b ) and I don't have a PS3 (or the money to buy one). I really really really wish that this could be released for PC too, but alas, doesn't sound like that will ever be possible.

I also want to play Beyond: Two Souls, which is going to be another PS3 exclusive so I might have to save up and buy one. I don't have a bluray player either, and I'd love to be able to stream Netflix on my TV so it might be worth it...

This seems like a sealed deal. Since you also need a blu-ray player to watch movies, you should buy a unit so you can play this game too. When you have the money, that is. Or you wait til you know if it's going to get released for PS4, but nothing seem to be certain there.

[Francis Buck]

Seriously, I demand a TLOU game on PS4.

Imagine playing one that looked like this.

It just has to happen. And you know that Naughty Dog's graphics will be just as good next-gen.

[PhoenixFlame]

Gah you guys are making me jelly! Luckily it's my birthday soon!

Hehe, not having any sympathy for PC peeps. You guys get a moddable Skyrim, so hush up and get back to your pretty armors, crazy hair, pet wolves and dragons, and photo-realistic environments.

[Inigima]

Wow. What an opening.

[The Anti-Targ]

I've seen one estimate saying over 1 million sold (to consumers) in the first week.

That's got to be close to some sort of record for a brand new IP.

Halo on XB possibly had a better launch week. In this console generation what new IP might have done better at launch? Gears of War maybe?

Anyway, a great result and deserved start to life as a new IP.

Sequel on PS4 in 2 years?

[Jabronius Maximus]

Sales are at 1.3 million for the first weekend, according to vgchartz, which I hear isn't the most reliable source. Still, if it's anywhere near that number that's impressive.

[victim]

I've seen one estimate saying over 1 million sold (to consumers) in the first week.

That's got to be close to some sort of record for a brand new IP.

Halo on XB possibly had a better launch week. In this console generation what new IP might have done better at launch? Gears of War maybe?

Anyway, a great result and deserved start to life as a new IP.

Apparently, it's the best selling new IP since LA Noire in 2011, which launched on both Xbox and Playstation so it's understandable.

I really hope we see a sequel to this game. The developers came out and said if it did get turned into a series, the main characters would change each game, and I think that's really smart. They've also got a single-player DLC coming out, in my opinion, it would be great to add a sort of prequel-chapter, maybe set a few months before, where you play as Marlene or one of Ellie's parents, and you find out what happened to them. I think it would be a really good idea to get some backstory there that helps shape Ellie the way Joel was shaped by his daughters death. I won't buy the DLC if it changes the ending though, I think it's perfect the way it is.

[The Anti-Targ]

Apparently, it's the best selling new IP since LA Noire in 2011, which launched on both Xbox and Playstation so it's understandable.

I really hope we see a sequel to this game. The developers came out and said if it did get turned into a series, the main characters would change each game, and I think that's really smart. They've also got a single-player DLC coming out, in my opinion, it would be great to add a sort of prequel-chapter, maybe set a few months before, where you play as Marlene or one of Ellie's parents, and you find out what happened to them. I think it would be a really good idea to get some backstory there that helps shape Ellie the way Joel was shaped by his daughters death. I won't buy the DLC if it changes the ending though, I think it's perfect the way it is.

I like that idea. The world itself if the recurring character.

[KiDisaster]

Just finished the game, and all I can say is wow.

The ending could not have been better.

[The Ghost of Winter]

I just finished the Winter segment and....

Did anyone else get a rapey vibe from David? Good lord that man was creepy as hell. I mean he held Ellie's hand before she broke his finger. One of his men called her "his new pet" and he was on top of her before she stabbed him to death.

[KiDisaster]

I just finished the Winter segment and....

Did anyone else get a rapey vibe from David? Good lord that man was creepy as hell. I mean he held Ellie's hand before she broke his finger. One of his men called her "his new pet" and he was on top of her before she stabbed him to death.

Yeah I'm almost positive that that's what he had in mind for her.

[Francis Buck]

I think that was definitely the intention. There was a sense that they just didn't want to totally "go there", perhaps thinking that the audience (and medium) isn't quite ready yet. To my knowledge the word "rape" was only even used once, at the end when Marlene said it. I personally had a sense that they were sort of dancing around the idea of it with the David stuff, but didn't want to totally commit.

[The Ghost of Winter]

I think that was definitely the intention. There was a sense that they just didn't want to totally "go there", perhaps thinking that the audience (and medium) isn't quite ready yet. To my knowledge the word "rape" was only even used once, at the end when Marlene said it. I personally had a sense that they were sort of dancing around the idea of it with the David stuff, but didn't want to totally commit.

I do too. I don't think they wanted to get too much into it, since it could be seen as controversial for ND. Plus she's a child and I don't think they wanted to horrify people too much to begin with. So its pretty much obviously implied. She seemed horrified for a while afterward, she's used to others trying to kill her but attempted rape is a different level for her.

[The Ghost of Winter]

My son was begging me for a playstation and this game last night :P Looks like it's in my future...

Two questions before I leave this thread so I don't get spoiled:

1. How inappropriate is this for, say an 8 yr old? A 10 yr old? A 14 yr old?

2. How scary is this game? I thought I Am Legend was scary as HELL, for example, but I LOVE everything zombie.

Thanks!

1. Would definitely not recommend this game for an 8 year old. 10 is pushing it. I guess it's not too bad for 14 year olds. There's lots of swearing, violence, etc. With moments of torture, cannibalism, attempted rape, and more. It's rated M, 17+. Decide for yourself whether its appropriate.

2. I honestly have been terrified, movies don't scare me, but this does. Not sure what to compare it to, but there's moments where the infected run up behind you and they tear your face apart or bite your neck, etc. It's enough to make me scream and pull a blanket over my head lol.

[Francis Buck]

My son was begging me for a playstation and this game last night :P Looks like it's in my future...

Two questions before I leave this thread so I don't get spoiled:

1. How inappropriate is this for, say an 8 yr old? A 10 yr old? A 14 yr old?

2. How scary is this game? I thought I Am Legend was scary as HELL, for example, but I LOVE everything zombie.

Thanks!

It's pretty damn brutal, and not in the typical gamey, cartoony way, it's all very realistically animated. It's about as violent as a game gets, and the story is very adult-oriented. I don't think it's suitable for anyone under 13 at the absolute youngest (that may be liberal, different parents have different standards obviously, and I'm not a parent, but I was allowed to pretty much play/watch anything I wanted by my teenage years so that's obviously coloring my perception). I mean you're frequently bashing people's skulls in with pipes, blowing their legs off with shotguns, setting them on fire, etc. You actually fight humans more often than zombies, probably about 60/40.

Scare-wise, it's tough to say. There are virtually no "jump scares" whatsoever, maybe one or two throughout the whole game. But there's definitely a strong sense of tension and building dread, and the zombies in it are, in my opinion, a lot creepier than the typical variety (mostly because of the noises they make, and because they're actually quite dangerous).

[victim]

I do too. I don't think they wanted to get too much into it, since it could be seen as controversial for ND. Plus she's a child and I don't think they wanted to horrify people too much to begin with. So its pretty much obviously implied. She seemed horrified for a while afterward, she's used to others trying to kill her but attempted rape is a different level for her.

David is one of the only people in the entire game that overpowers Ellie in almost every single way. She jumps on the back of henchmen and kills them no problem, but when it's David's turn, he shrugs it off and comes at her harder. I honestly think it was the most terrifying part of the game, because playing as Ellie, despite her worldliness, I felt truly overpowered by this evil, evil man. It certainly is strange to feel relieved after seeing a 14 year old girl massacre a man with a machete.

[JonArryn]

I just finished the Winter segment and....

Did anyone else get a rapey vibe from David? Good lord that man was creepy as hell. I mean he held Ellie's hand before she broke his finger. One of his men called her "his new pet" and he was on top of her before she stabbed him to death.

he definitely was in the beginning stage of raping her there. I wondered about it too at first, because it's not made very clear. But then Joel arrives and Ellie cries and says: "he tried to..." Which made it pretty clear what David tried to do.

[The Ghost of Winter]

David is one of the only people in the entire game that overpowers Ellie in almost every single way. She jumps on the back of henchmen and kills them no problem, but when it's David's turn, he shrugs it off and comes at her harder. I honestly think it was the most terrifying part of the game, because playing as Ellie, despite her worldliness, I felt truly overpowered by this evil, evil man. It certainly is strange to feel relieved after seeing a 14 year old girl massacre a man with a machete.

Ugh just the way he talks while chasing you in that burning building gave me goosebumps. Pervy creep.