Maltaran

Should tipping be banned?

333 posts in this topic

Firstly, social customs don't go away very easily so many customers would continue tipping.

I think that could from one day to the other. It just requires the US to move to a cash-free society, like (say) the Scandinavian countries.

You announce that you’re done, the waiter appears with a card reader with the correct amount for the meal typed in. You swipe your card. Done. (This is what I’m used to when not travelling to a tipping country like the US.)

(Weirdly, some Swedish restaurants have now started to not type in the correct amount on the machine, leaving it to me so that I could tip using my card if I wanted to. To signal the cultural difference I find that downright rude from the restaurant and it makes me want to eat there less.)

The biggest reason to resist that culture is of course tax evasion.

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It just requires the US to move to a cash-free society, like (say) the Scandinavian countries.

That's all it would take? So simple. So feasible.

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I know we do tip here in the UK, but it seems pretty rare, and I'm not sure servers are paid less in anticipation of them. My sister's friend is 16 and works in a pub as a waitress, and she's paid £5 an hour, as well as the tip jar being divided out between all the staff. That seems like a reasonable wage, but I have no idea what the norm is here.

I've only ever tipped once, and that was because my friend mentioned it. It just never crosses my mind to do so. Sadly we'd only brought enough money for our meal (we had a voucher) so the tip was mere pennies. It made me feel bad, and I wonder how many times people have waited for a tip and not gotten one, not because the service was poor, but simply because it's not a general practice here. If I went to the US I'd be in for a shock. I find it disgusting that employers can get away with paying someone next to no money to do a pretty hard and stressful job, because they may get some tips.

Does the UK have a typical percentage we're supposed to tip? I've found recently some pizza delivery places put a 20p charity donation onto your bill if you order online, but you can remove it. I usually say keep the change, but only if it's next to nothing, because pizza delivery drivers here (at least at one particular company I recently had an interview with) get £1 for every pizza they drop off anyway, on top of their hourly rate, which is over the minimum wage IIRC.

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I think that could from one day to the other. It just requires the US to move to a cash-free society, like (say) the Scandinavian countries.

You announce that you’re done, the waiter appears with a card reader with the correct amount for the meal typed in. You swipe your card. Done. (This is what I’m used to when not travelling to a tipping country like the US.)

(Weirdly, some Swedish restaurants have now started to not type in the correct amount on the machine, leaving it to me so that I could tip using my card if I wanted to. To signal the cultural difference I find that downright rude from the restaurant and it makes me want to eat there less.)

The biggest reason to resist that culture is of course tax evasion.

You know (perhaps) that the Scandinavian countries are my point of reference.

I am not sure I find it rude that they leave the sum blank in the card reader, for me it's convenient. But I see your point, and I think your view is more common than mine. It's not the fault of the staff in any case, so I don't want to let it influence how I tip.

Pono, would you mind if the servers are paid more in wages?

Here, they are. Tips are not at all socially mandatory, and the servers can live off their wages. Tips are simply a way of thanking for good service, and in long term a way to help the establishment keep the best staff.

Drac, I worked as a waitress and bar keep in London and tips were extremely rare, and it was the same in most pubs around the area. I had friends working across the road and it was the same in their place even though we got a lot of praise for our service.

The wages were low, ends barely met each week, so if I go to the UK I would tip handsomely :D

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That's strange then, that if tipping is rare here, employers don't pay a decent wage. How do they get away with it? I'll remember that, though I hate that I feel obliged to tip because the server isn't making enough money, due to their employer being an arse.

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I think that could from one day to the other. It just requires the US to move to a cash-free society, like (say) the Scandinavian countries.

I don't know how extensive this is in Scandinavian countries, but US businesses indulge in a lot of 'behavioral psychology' to entice customers. So an 'all you can eat buffet' for $6.99 hides sales tax and whatever you may want to tip the waitstaff. Of course, it actually is 7 bucks + 6% tax + 15% tip....and I think culturally changing that might take a bit more effort, say if businesses were convinced that removing tipping would bring in more customers. Removing the service exemption from minimum wage might be a good legal way to start, but there is a lot of political opposition to jimmy with minimum wage laws.

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As a cab driver, rather than one of the many helpless victims in this thing we call the service industry, I have a slightly different take on this:

If you don't tip, FUCK YOU. I choose who I pick up, and it is not going to be you. My regulars are not people who expect me to be their bitch for minimum wage, they are people who expect to pay extra for solid gold service and that I will give it to them. And I do.

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Automatic tipping is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to pay extra for you to do your job properly. If you're not being paid adequately, that's your employer's fault. The customer shouldn't have to pay more to compensate for the employer's inability to pay.

However, if a waiter/waitress provides exceptional service, I would be more than happy to tip.

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That's strange then, that if tipping is rare here, employers don't pay a decent wage. How do they get away with it? I'll remember that, though I hate that I feel obliged to tip because the server isn't making enough money, due to their employer being an arse.

It's the employers market, so many young people will take any job with the hope it could lead to something better. London is probably not the norm though.

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Tipping only really seems to be a thing here at restaurants, although you sometimes see tip jars elsewhere (usually pubs/bars). I'm pretty fastidious about leaving a tip at restaurants, but some (more stingy) people I know don't really do it. This tends to lead to problems where you're out as a group and someone refuses to contribute to a tip, meaning you either under-tip or one person is tipping disproportionately. (Especially when you've already paid for part of their meal, but that's a different issue).

Some restaurants have a service charge that they add to the bill automatically. For some reason this always enrages me, especially since the service charge is usually given as 12.5% rather than the standard 10%. It is discretionary, but asking for the service charge to be removed is just awkward. The thing is, too, that with rounding up going the way it does, if I'm eating alone or as one of two, I'm actually more likely to leave a tip in the region of 15-20%, especially if I've enjoyed my meal, so by including the service charge they're both annoying me to the point I might not eat there again and actually screwing themselves out of money.

I don't know why it's a restaurant-only thing, either for me or for society in general. I don't have a problem with it, and it's certainly taken less seriously here than in the US, which is good. I don't really want to see it spread into other fields, though.

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I hate this Mr. Pink shit.

Tip your damn servers. You're not going to start a revolution by stiffing someone who would not make a liveable wage without tips. Have a beer at home if you don't want to tip the bartender.

Shame on you.

Read the thread :)

Expected/near mandatory tipping could be considered false advertising, hiding the true cost of products.

Making sure that the employer (not the customer) pays their employees a good wage and raising the advertised prices to compensate that solves most issues. With only the people who want to be able to punish their waiters (etc) losing out.

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That's all it would take? So simple. So feasible.

I assume that you’re being facetious, but yes: this is indeed simple and feasible.

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"Why tip someone for a job I'm capable of doing myself? I can deliver food. I can drive a taxi. I can, and do, cut my own hair. I did however, tip my urologist, because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones."

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It's more that I'm already paying for the service, so I just don't think about a tip. Plus it shouldn't be down to the customer to make up the employees wages - employers should stop being shits and start paying their workers a decent wage, so they don't have to rely on tips.

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Tipping is semi-usual in restaurants and bars here. I usually do not do it, I say keep the change if there are only a few cents, but I rarely remember to do it.

As a cab driver, rather than one of the many helpless victims in this thing we call the service industry, I have a slightly different take on this:

If you don't tip, FUCK YOU. I choose who I pick up, and it is not going to be you. My regulars are not people who expect me to be their bitch for minimum wage, they are people who expect to pay extra for solid gold service and that I will give it to them. And I do.

Excuse me, but I think this is unfair. The customers are only obliged to pay as much as it stands on the price list. Giving extra for extraordinarily good serivce is fine, but it should not be expected.

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As a cab driver, rather than one of the many helpless victims in this thing we call the service industry, I have a slightly different take on this:

If you don't tip, FUCK YOU. I choose who I pick up, and it is not going to be you. My regulars are not people who expect me to be their bitch for minimum wage, they are people who expect to pay extra for solid gold service and that I will give it to them. And I do.

This is a perfect illustration why the system of (technically discretionary, in fact obligatory) tips sucks. It only creates strong resentment such as displayed above.

You do know that there are countries where a cab driver doesn't expect, and rarely gets, a tip, has prices calculated accordingly, and still makes a living and isn't anybody's "bitch" any more than you are?

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As a cab driver, rather than one of the many helpless victims in this thing we call the service industry, I have a slightly different take on this:

If you don't tip, FUCK YOU. I choose who I pick up, and it is not going to be you. My regulars are not people who expect me to be their bitch for minimum wage, they are people who expect to pay extra for solid gold service and that I will give it to them. And I do.

Wow,

Be grateful you are working in a country where taxi drivers can actually earn tips. In most countries, people don't reward even exceptional taxi service with tips.

It definetly shouldn't be the norm to tip average service..telling them FUCK YOU cause they don't give you extra money which you might not even be worthy of...is uncool man. :angry:

You do realize most people aren't stinking rich who can afford to throw around extra cash for every service done for them for which they've already paid?!

I prefer raising prices than this tipping crap.

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Just curious, not saying it does not exist or anything, but what is "solid gold" service for a taxi? What does a taxi provide more than actually driving the client to the place he asked?

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I'd guess sometimes his regulars come from out of time and he would make recommendations about restaurants, nightclubs etc and take them to those places. Almost like an abbreviated guided tour of a city.

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down my way, gold standard for professional drivers includes happy ending.

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