What will Danaerys be doing in Season 4? (book spoilers)

[Ser Tahu]

This conversation...

:bang:

:agree:

[Lannister Hamster]

Back to topic if they are going to include AFFC and ADWD in one series then it makes sense that they begin to move forward Dany's ADWD storyline and show her trying to rule Mereen.

GRRM has consistently says that the ruling (although boring to readers) is one of the things that interests him and I find it hard to believe that they won't try and transfer this to screen as well.

I could see the series ending with Dany locking up the dragons after Drogon ate a 'child'

[The Idiots Lantern]

I could see the series ending with Dany locking up the dragons after Drogon ate a 'child'

I don't think that can happen in season 4. The dragons are still too small. Maybe season 5, though I have a hunch they'll use the fighting pits to end her DWD material.... But that might be season 6, if they stretch Merreen out to two seasons.

[Kaitscralt]

The Idiots Lantern, I really think you should go back and read / listen to all the interviews pertaining to what GRRM has given up in regards to this selling this story. Because you're just making stuff up based on what you want to be true. I am not going to explain what others have already posted 10+ times, but, yeah. Do your homework.

[Ser Tahu]

The Idiots Lantern, I really think you should go back and read / listen to all the interviews pertaining to what GRRM has given up in regards to this selling this story. Because you're just making stuff up based on what you want to be true. I am not going to explain what others have already posted 10+ times, but, yeah. Do your homework.

NOOOOO!!! DON'T BRING BACK THIS ARGUMENT!!! :P

I don't think that can happen in season 4. The dragons are still too small. Maybe season 5, though I have a hunch they'll use the fighting pits to end her DWD material.... But that might be season 6, if they stretch Merreen out to two seasons.

I have always rejected the notion of her getting far into ADwD material in season 4 based solely on how that would either require her season 5 stuff to be really slow in a season that won't be the most eventful of season, or ruin the pacing and severely rush numerous other arcs (Quentyn, Victarion and Tyrion (which would in turn effect Aegon, Dorne and King's Landing's pacing)). I never even considered the size of the dragons before. So I think that point is another reason why Daenerys going deep into ADwD in season 4 is unlikely.

[QueenStark]

I have always rejected the notion of her getting far into ADwD material in season 4 based solely on how that would either require her season 5 stuff to be really slow in a season that won't be the most eventful of season, or ruin the pacing and severely rush numerous other arcs (Quentyn, Victarion and Tyrion (which would in turn effect Aegon, Dorne and King's Landing's pacing)). I never even considered the size of the dragons before. So I think that point is another reason why Daenerys going deep into ADwD in season 4 is unlikely.

I completely agree with this! I'd rather we have less of Dany in season 4, to be honest than go further ahead or extend her story with poor writing.

[Kaitscralt]

They don't need to have the dragons sized up for the child scene to happen. They could just have a burned corpse and the implication that Drogon tried to eat the kid and failed.

[Ser Tahu]

They don't need to have the dragons sized up for the child scene to happen. They could just have a burned corpse and the implication that Drogon tried to eat the kid and failed.

I guess that's possible, but Drogon trying and failing still doesn't leave as big an impact as charred bones. And it would still leave all of the pacing issues for seasons 5+.

[Lannister Hamster]

Dany's storyline is totally separate from the other characters from now until the end of book 5. I was advocating that they can have her take Mereen very early on in Season 4 and then have the rest of Season 4 and 5 investigating the themes of how exactly she is going to be a ruler of a city, deal with her dragons and fight the guerilla war against the Harpys.

In my mind I don't really see how this will affect Quentyn, Tyrion or Jorah as Jorah can still be sent away some time in Season 4, Tyrion will still have time to get there for the death matches and Quentyn will still have his arc.

For me its between this and Dany sieging Mereen and I think her ruling in Mereen is more in the spirit of GRRM's vision

[Ser Tahu]

Dany's storyline is totally separate from the other characters from now until the end of book 5. I was advocating that they can have her take Mereen very early on in Season 4 and then have the rest of Season 4 and 5 investigating the themes of how exactly she is going to be a ruler of a city, deal with her dragons and fight the guerilla war against the Harpys.

In my mind I don't really see how this will affect Quentyn, Tyrion or Jorah as Jorah can still be sent away some time in Season 4, Tyrion will still have time to get there for the death matches and Quentyn will still have his arc.

For me its between this and Dany sieging Mereen and I think her ruling in Mereen is more in the spirit of GRRM's vision

I agree that her season 5 arc should consist solely of her ruling, the shadow war and the dragons going out of control. However, I just don't see how that could last for more than a season without it weakening the arc or boring the viewers. (and to people saying it will bore the viewers anyway: IT IS A SHADOW WAR! WITH DRAGONS GOING INSANE AND AN IMPENDING SIEGE! HOW IS THAT BORING?). So if they start her ruling early in season 4 they will either bore the viewers or they will have to speed up the arrivals of the other characters, ruining their arcs. I never said that taking Meereen early would definitely mess up the other character's arcs, just that it would result in the weakening of at least one character's arc.

As for season 4, because they haven't really laid much of the groundwork for it yet I believe that they are going to have to build up the tensions with Jorah in the early episodes. This would keep her storyline interesting enough to postpone her victory over Meereen until the latter half of the season. Also, if they were to make it so that Meereen is more difficult to take it will help viewers come to realise that Daenerys isn't perfect, as many seem to believe, which is something that has to be done soon regardless of how long her ASoS material lasts. Also, to have her take the city and banish Jorah early would require them to give Daenerys a lot of screentime in the first few episodes, when King's Landing, the Wall and the Greyjoys will need the time a lot more than her.

Anyway, here is the way I believe the season could play out:

31 - The decision to head to Meereen, finding the children nailed to posts (the children could actually act as the reason she wants to go to Meereen)

32 - On the road, we get some tensions between Jorah and Daenerys

33 - no Daenerys.

34 - Arriving at Meereen which is defended by the Stormcrows, it is visibly apparent that the tensions with Jorah aren't yet resolved (short scene, as the episode will be dominated by Joffrey's Wedding)

35 - meeting with Meereenese and Stormcrow leaders (including Brown Ben). Straight away it become clear that the Meereenese aren't going to make peace, and are willing to fight (setting up the siege to be much more difficult than Yunkai). Jorah publicly disagrees with Daenerys.

36 - the betrayal is revealed. Jorah is told to lead the vanguard against the Meereenese.

37 - Daenerys gifts the Stormcrows with wine. That night Daenerys' forces attack while they are drunk and they surrender (similar to Yunkai in the books).

38 - Daenerys enters the city and executes the 163 slavers.

39 - no Daenerys (the episode will mostly be the siege of the Wall)

40 - Brown Ben swears allegiance to Daenerys, Jorah is banished, and she decides to rule Meereen.

This way they can: 1) avoid stretching out her ADwD stuff or overly compressing other ADwD stuff. 2) properly build up the Jorah betrayal and banishment. 3) start to show that she isn't the golden girl 4) give a satisfying ending 5) allow the dragons to grow more before their shenanigans :P and 6) avoid diverting excessive time from other storylines in the early episodes (her stuff will really pick up as the Greyjoy stuff dies down).

This then leaves the entirety of season 5 for her ruling/the shadow war/the dragons, the first half of season 6 for the Meereenese knot, and the second half of season 6 for her among the Dothraki (my theory is that her first few TWoW chapters happen chronologically at the same time as Barristan's ADwD chapters). Also, if my theories about TWoW are correct, this leaves the start of season 7 for the battle and some to all of the rest of the season for her getting to Westeros..

[Kaitscralt]

I guess that's possible, but Drogon trying and failing still doesn't leave as big an impact as charred bones. And it would still leave all of the pacing issues for seasons 5+.

I personally think a charred corpse is more impactful than charred bones.

[PatrickStormborn]

I personally think a charred corpse is more impactful than charred bones.

Seriously? A burned body has more impact than an eaten body?

[DaveyJoe]

Visually, a corpse is much more disturbing, the more elements of humanity something has, the easier it is to relate. A pile of bones doesn't do much for me. What was more disturbing to see, Ned Stark's head on a pike or his bones in a chest?

[ejhawman]

I agree that her season 5 arc should consist solely of her ruling, the shadow war and the dragons going out of control. However, I just don't see how that could last for more than a season without it weakening the arc or boring the viewers. (and to people saying it will bore the viewers anyway: IT IS A SHADOW WAR! WITH DRAGONS GOING INSANE AND AN IMPENDING SIEGE! HOW IS THAT BORING?). So if they start her ruling early in season 4 they will either bore the viewers or they will have to speed up the arrivals of the other characters, ruining their arcs. I never said that taking Meereen early would definitely mess up the other character's arcs, just that it would result in the weakening of at least one character's arc.

As for season 4, because they haven't really laid much of the groundwork for it yet I believe that they are going to have to build up the tensions with Jorah in the early episodes. This would keep her storyline interesting enough to postpone her victory over Meereen until the latter half of the season. Also, if they were to make it so that Meereen is more difficult to take it will help viewers come to realise that Daenerys isn't perfect, as many seem to believe, which is something that has to be done soon regardless of how long her ASoS material lasts. Also, to have her take the city and banish Jorah early would require them to give Daenerys a lot of screentime in the first few episodes, when King's Landing, the Wall and the Greyjoys will need the time a lot more than her.

Anyway, here is the way I believe the season could play out:

31 - The decision to head to Meereen, finding the children nailed to posts (the children could actually act as the reason she wants to go to Meereen)

32 - On the road, we get some tensions between Jorah and Daenerys

33 - no Daenerys.

34 - Arriving at Meereen which is defended by the Stormcrows, it is visibly apparent that the tensions with Jorah aren't yet resolved (short scene, as the episode will be dominated by Joffrey's Wedding)

35 - meeting with Meereenese and Stormcrow leaders (including Brown Ben). Straight away it become clear that the Meereenese aren't going to make peace, and are willing to fight (setting up the siege to be much more difficult than Yunkai). Jorah publicly disagrees with Daenerys.

36 - the betrayal is revealed. Jorah is told to lead the vanguard against the Meereenese.

37 - Daenerys gifts the Stormcrows with wine. That night Daenerys' forces attack while they are drunk and they surrender (similar to Yunkai in the books).

38 - Daenerys enters the city and executes the 163 slavers.

39 - no Daenerys (the episode will mostly be the siege of the Wall)

40 - Brown Ben swears allegiance to Daenerys, Jorah is banished, and she decides to rule Meereen.

This way they can: 1) avoid stretching out her ADwD stuff or overly compressing other ADwD stuff. 2) properly build up the Jorah betrayal and banishment. 3) start to show that she isn't the golden girl 4) give a satisfying ending 5) allow the dragons to grow more before their shenanigans :P and 6) avoid diverting excessive time from other storylines in the early episodes (her stuff will really pick up as the Greyjoy stuff dies down).

This then leaves the entirety of season 5 for her ruling/the shadow war/the dragons, the first half of season 6 for the Meereenese knot, and the second half of season 6 for her among the Dothraki (my theory is that her first few TWoW chapters happen chronologically at the same time as Barristan's ADwD chapters). Also, if my theories about TWoW are correct, this leaves the start of season 7 for the battle and some to all of the rest of the season for her getting to Westeros..

That timeline was basically my model for the season as well. The episodes without Dany can be moved around a bit but there should be a sizeable gap somewhere after Dany settles in as queen to allow the dragons to grow. Season 5 should take several months on her end.

[binga]

These dragons are going to start taking a bigger toll on the budget if you want them to look believable as large dragons. I am expecting something like what we saw in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, imagine them showing a teaser with a dragon like that. That could ensure viewers stick around for the more "boring" Daenerys events from ADWD.

[PatrickStormborn]

Visually, a corpse is much more disturbing, the more elements of humanity something has, the easier it is to relate. A pile of bones doesn't do much for me. What was more disturbing to see, Ned Stark's head on a pike or his bones in a chest?

It's not about the bones... It's about the fact that the girl was eaten.

[DaveyJoe]

It's not about the bones... It's about the fact that the girl was eaten.

I get that, but I'm talking about visual impact within the context of the show, and a mangled corpse is much more horrific than a pile of bones. Books are more cerebral and you have time to think about how awful it is that a girl was eaten. The show has to be visual and show something that is visceral and disturbing in a moment, then move on. We don't get time to reflect on what happened, the show has one instant to shock and horrify the audience. Like Ned's leg being crushed by a horse in the book versus getting pierced by a spear in the show, one of those just works better visually.

[Kaitscralt]

Seriously? A burned body has more impact than an eaten body?

Um... yes, because bones are not an eaten body, they're bones.

[ChozenOne]

I was thinking something along the lines of a bundle, that once unwrapped, reveals the charred remains of a child, with maybe a limb missing and a few bites taken out. Sounds about right for the shock moments they go for on this show.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Seriously? A burned body has more impact than an eaten body?

I... Completely agree. I don't think the churned body look is particularly effective, as evidenced by the bodies of the two boys killed and burned in place of Bran & Rickon. It's not that the effect is unconvincing, I just don't find it to be very impactful. The idea of someone being eaten certainly bothers me more than the idea of someone being fried, and the fact is that we've seen that several times already from the dragons. That Drogon actually ate someone will have more impact, simply because it's a new development, if nothing else.