Nevets

@John Suburbs Are you kidding me?!? I certainly hope so. Braavos and the Free Cities don't really exist. They were created by George R.R. Martin. So yes, they absolutely do what they do for the enjoyment of readers, and for no other reason. If you haven't figured that out by now, no wonder you come up with such crazy nonsensical theories. Now GRRM does try to keep things sensible and within reason, but absolute realism is not required. Nor expected.

When Shadrich had his conversation with Brienne, Varys was still Master of Whispers or had just left. The reward for Sansa was most likely offered in that capacity. I don't know why he would be interested on his own account; Sansa's nothing to him. And since Tyrion is still alive, using her as marriage bait would be difficult, even if she could be found and was interested.

You write very entertaining fan fiction, but I see no reason to take it seriously, much less believe it. Proxy depositors? What proxy depositors? I don't recall reading about them. Come to think of it, does the bank even take deposits from the general public? I expect they might handle transactions and provide safekeeping for local businesses and the like, but these would be known to them. From what I gather, the Bank is financed by investors, called keyholders. It does not appear to be financed by demand deposits. The iron coin is valuable because it is produced in a specific quantity and generally accepted as a means of exchange for goods and services. Kind of like the dollar, which everyone takes. We have no idea who issues it. It could the Iron Bank. It could also be the local merchants association, the Sealord, or the Ironmongers Guild for all we know. It's small change, so I'm pretty sure someone will back it. What evidence do you have that Littlefinger even knows Illyrio, much less is conspiring with him? There is one major character in Braavos and she is there for her own purposes. Braavos is a convenient location to learn in and take a break. There is one Faceless Man in Westeros, and he's gathering information. Braavos and the rest of the Free Cities aren't that important and aren't going to be.

If this is the case, then her story is pointless and a complete waste of time. I do not think for a minute that that is the case. Also, she is in fact Targaryen. Having three dragons as companions is good enough for me. No way is that a coincidence. Of course that makes a switch difficult as it very much limits where she could have come from and who she could have been originally. One reason of many why I don't believe it.

Rogare Bank? Never heard of them. They're not in the main series, so I doubt their story affects this one or is any kind of foreshadowing. The iron coin is not a proxy currency. Braavos uses gold and silver like everyone else. Coins' value is based on their weight and purity, which are easily determined, especially for gold. The iron coin is almost certainly small change, equivalent to copper in Westeros. Its demise if it happened could cause a currency shortage, but that won't bring down the economy, especially since it's a small proportion of the money in circulation. I can't see the Iron Bank being brought down by Westeros crown debt. When Ned arrived, the Crown was 6 million in debt. Half was held by the Lannisters. One million was the Faith, which cheerfully wrote it off in exchange for activation of the Faith Militant. Which leaves 2 million for the Iron Bank, Tyrosh syndicates, and everyone else. So probably a bit more than 1 million to the IB. If the Lannisters can afford to lose 3 million and the Faith 1 million, I think the Iron Bank will not be brought down by Westeros crown debt. Especially since the Free Cities seem to regard Westeros as a backwater. I doubt they have a lot invested there. It may put a hole in their profits if the Crown reneges, which I doubt, but it won't bring them down. Disappearance of slavery could cause problems, but Braavos and the IB would be among the least affected. If there is serious economic trouble, they will be the last ones standing, if it gets to that point. It is also useful to remember that Braavos and the rest of the Free Cities are a sideshow as far as the books are concerned.

There can only be one Daenerys. If she gets sold off to a Khal she's still the only Daenerys. Even if she dies, she's still the only one. The people with the other Daenerys can't do anything with her because she doesn't exist. Marriages at that level are very public events. The only way they can use her is to prove the other is a fake. Good luck with that. Especially if you have to expose your own involvement. Then nobody will trust you.

I fail to see the point of this. The Dany that is not with Viserys is of no use to anyone. She's obviously being hidden and the only thing she can do is put doubt on the other one, which is definitely not in the interest of Viserys, Darry, or any of their supporters. If you have a second Dany, simply keep her hidden. As long as her existence is kept closely guarded she should be safe. And if you can't manage that you shouldn't be involved in conspiracies anyway.

I'm not sure the Starks' reputation needs salvaging. The Riverlands is still seething with rebellion over the murder of their king, the Young Wolf. Daven Lannister, warden of the West, described the river lords' attitude as"wolfish". So they're certainly liked, and missed, there. As for the rest of the South, they seem to have forgotten the Starks altogether. They rarely get mentioned. Jaime might disclose the incest, but that will probably mainly simply hurt Cersei and Joffrey's reputation. The Starks will build back their reputation through accomplishment and good deeds. They will almost certainly lead the fight against the Others and be heavily involved in the rebuilding and restoration that follows. The Starks' reputation doesn't need salvaging. And to the extent that it needs building up, they can do that themselves, but any help will be accepted and appreciated.

She'll marry a Great Lord, rule his castle and be his closest advisor? I like it! Or maybe she'll ride to war with a king and become his closest advisor, and get sent as envoy to another king. I like that too! Of course she could wind up being treacherously and viciously murdered, but I have faith she'll avoid that. GRRM likes her too much.

You forgot some. Eddard, traitor to his King (twice) Catelyn, traitor to her king , who was also her son. Sansa, traitor to her family. Hey, if you're going to wildly exaggerate, do so with gusto! Put some real effort into it.

Given most of the other families we've seen, if that's the worst you can come up with, I'd say they're a pretty decent bunch.

Just because Viserys sells Dany for an army doesn't mean that was the original plan. I've seen that assumption elsewhere (pink letter, for example), and it can lead you astray. It appears Viserys got lucky, or unlucky, with Khal Drogo. If there was a switch, it would have to be at more than 5 years old. To use her as marriage bait, he's going to have to wait about TEN YEARS. No way is he going to want to wait that long. He certainly isn't going to intend on doing so, much less plan for it. The fact is that he's got other things to offer, or should. He's going to be king of Westeros. He's getting rid of Robert, which should be the first offer. And if he can't find some cushy jobs and nice castles for his supporters, what good is he?

It would mean that she was Rhaegar's child instead of Aerys's, and Jon's sister instead of his aunt. She would still be a Targaryen princess though, and the last member of her House. As Rhaegar's child, she might be less prone to madness than if she were Aerys's, though makes her story less interesting, not more. Half the fun of her story is wondering if she loses it. So yeah, it would seem to be much ado about nothing, so to say. There is also the possibility that she and Viserys spent time someplace they weren't supposed to be, like Dorne. That could raise questions about what the Dornish were up to. Tyrosh has also been mentioned, though I fail to see the point there.

I am perfectly happy to ignore everything Viserys says. There is still more than ample reason to believe that Daenerys is the girl born to Rhaella on Dragonstone during a storm. We have plenty of independent evidence to that effect, and nothing, except speculation about the location of a lemon tree, to contradict it. As far as the Gravedigger is concerned, he matches Sandor's description, which is not a common one; he has a serious injury in a place we know Sandor has one; he is in geographic proximity to his known last location; and if you look at the Elder Brother's words to Brienne on the subject, they are very precise, and very slippery. That he is lying by omission is very easy to believe.

The conversation with her father in the godswood is almost identical to the one she had with him in her room in AGOT. This would appear to rule out Bran or Bloodraven, as they wouldn't know of it. I'm perfectly happy thinking the old gods are involved but it's probably just her memory. The scene with Theon is Bran trying to communicate in real time. We see it from his end in another chapter.

Unfortunately no. Sadly, it is seared into my brain. But if you're going to mention brothels and/or slavery in Daenerys's past, I'm going to need more from her memories than a lemon tree. And in general, I'm going to need more than wild speculation and tenuous connections. As for William Dustin, I meant that his death during the fight at the Tower of Joy was well established so he couldn't be Dany's caretaker. I thought that was clear from context. Evidently not.

Why all the folderol? Why would Oberyn go to all this trouble to switch babies? What's he hoping to accomplish? Why is Viserys going along with it? Hell, why is Darry as well? What's in it for them? Where did fDany come from,? If a brothel, why no weird memories (multiple female caretakers, for example). Why no weird, fragmentary memories of any kind? GRRM is good about giving hints like that. Where is the real Dany?

Competent evidence has been presented that Jon is not Ned's bastard and that Sandor is not dead. I am inclined to believe that evidence. I have not seen such evidence for the suggestion that Dany is fake. You have suggested that Dany was cared for by William Dustin, whose death is well established. You have also suggested that Dany was sold into slavery and purchased by Illyrio, for which there is no evidence whatsoever. If the proponents of the theory that Dany is fake wish to be taken seriously, they should provide competent evidence to that effect. I've not seen anything I find convincing, though your opinion may differ. I do not ask for actual proof. I do ask for something more than mere speculation.

@Gilbert Green We are explicitly told that Daenerys Targaryen, presently in east Essos, is the daughter of Rhaella Targaryen, born on Dragonstone during a storm. It is not a theory, it is established fact. If you wish to dispute this, and claim that she is someone else, it is up to you to provide competent evidence to that effect. That is what burden of proof means. It doesn't require actual proof, which is impossible, but it does require giving good reasons to believe it. So far I have seen nothing except wild speculation that is without textual support or even contradicts actual text. The only thing I have seen remotely supporting this contention is the suggestion that the house with the red door was not in Braavos. While there is a good possibility that it is outside Braavos, all that does is establish a presence elsewhere. There are many possibilities for where and why, some of which have been mentioned on this thread. While her being a fake is one of the possibilities mentioned, I've seen no reason to believe it and have every reason not to.

If we're holding a trial I would charge: Three counts of murder (Jory, Heward, and Wyl). Attempted murder of Bran. Aiding an escape (Tyrion). Conspiracy to aid a fugitive (Sansa). Treason for fathering children on the Queen and passing them off as legitimate.

Sansa gets nowhere near the hatred Cersei gets. I certainly haven't seen it. And what she does get is related to her actions in the first book. She has matured, learned and changed a great deal since then. Sansa couldn't be worse than Cersei if she tried. She's too nice and cares too much. And she hasn't a cruel bone in her body. Cersei often seems to be nothing but cruelty.

What power? She has no real power until AFFC, and even then it is circumscribed by Mace and Kevan to a large extent. When she does start exercising real power she is so inept it's almost laughable. Her actions in the second half of AFFC remind me of the old saying, "it was worse than a crime, it was a blunder". She often combines both. My problem is the level of cruelty and spite she exhibits. Who are the characters that readers give a pass to despite similar behavior? Not Daenerys. Her cruelty is far less prevalent and always has a discernible reason. Not Tywin. He is hated almost as much as Cersei. Theon comes close, but he's not really popular either, and has redeemed himself somewhat lately. She has pathetic excuses for her misbehavior and whatever redeeming qualities she has are minimal and insufficient to mitigate the harm she has done.

Cersei has: Demanded the death or maiming of a 9-year-old noble girl for hitting her son. Ordered the death of an innocent pet despite, or because of, the clear distress of its person. Murders a small child, and her mother, and attempts to murder a teenage boy because they're Robert's bastards. Has Tommen's whipping boy (ugh!) whipped after Tommen asserted himself in order to hurt and intimidate him. Has the Blue Bard and several others tortured into falsely accusing Margaery of adultery. Persecutes Margaery by making false accusations. Sends Senelle, Falyse, and puppeteers to Qyburn knowing they will die screaming. Abused Tyrion as a small child. That's an impressive charge sheet and only includes actions that are proven and unjustifiable. It shows a strong penchant for gratuitous cruelty and spitefulness. And don't even mention the prophecy. The fact that any of this happened as a result of a prophecy she heard as a child makes it, if anything, even worse. Stop trying to convince us that Cersei is some poor, misunderstood put upon victim who is the recipient of unjust hatred on the part of readers. She's not, and her list of misdeeds shows why.

I'm not saying he's a good guy or that I like him. I consider him to be one of the main villains in the series. Maybe not quite as bad as Cersei, but definitely malevolent. And some of the stuff listed really was quite bad. Also, I don't pin all the blame for the War of the 5 Kings on him. He had lots of help and material to work with.

Would the fact that Littlefinger didn't do half the stuff he's accused of be one of the "very minor mitigating factors" you are referencing? Just wondering. Though that hardly sounds minor.