astarkchoice

Yep.hes frigged If jon doesnt give him grayscale hel self sabotage. The issue is varys and iltlyrio have caused so much chaos and bloodshed for 'the realm' which in reality means their moulded ideal leader (whos also ilyrios son and its probably personal for 'uncle varys' too) but we see all this may count for nowt...faegon may still gave the targ madness he already appears easily provoked to anger or action and unwilling to listen to wise counsel ...if he wont listen fully to jon connington the question is who will.he listen to? Also most dangerously like dany did he feels he has a destiny to make westeros submit (and/or seek vengence)....fanatical.belief like that is always dangerous.

Yeah if robb didnt want him to defend his own lands then he should have been specific with orders. His only flaw is the old combat adage of trying to lose no one will get everyone killed.

Maybe set it on fire with nearby trees/branches and use the horses to help drag what remains down with the supports burnt away.

The mad kings 'burn them all' stands out

Come on Given what he may have 'lost' and having to hear the ironborn say theyl rise 'harder' has gotta sting everyntime

When you look at their links to the major houses all over the north its no wonder they are well liked karstark: blood kin nuff said Flints: 2 major houses of flint its said the kings of winter fought flints to gain their submission BUT the newer house was built on lands secured by the starks waging hard wars vs ironborn over a few generations! the fact they bled for that land and allowed the flints to establish a sucessor house on it probably means they are very loyal Umbers: generaly think these guys have some giant blood in them and the starks its said drove giants from the north that said for loyalty we know the umbers are closest to the wall thus are in the wildling firing line worse than anyone, starks have not only stood beside umbers to fight and sometimes die vs kings beyomd the wall but between sending multiple sons and brandons gift . Theres.no stronger patron of the watch which as the 1st line of defence vs wildlings im sure the umbers appreciated greatly! That an establishing the karstarks far north too help kerb the raiders from.over the wall probably helps too(that and reminder that rebellion would be vs 2 stark houses) Maderlys + mormonts : pretty much only exist now due to the starks Crannogmen: at least 3 houses beaten down by the kings of winter to vassals, the starks subduing then intermarrying warg kings daughters may have gifted them with the magics needed to counter the bogmens guerrllia tactics (that and their rough and ready northern clansmen) BUT again the crannogmen worship old gods and follow old.ways that surely would have died out had house stark not broken andals comming north, nor will they think lightly of house starks support of the watch and theyl know much of the dark myth times of house stark vs the others etc Hornwood: establishing the wolfsden prob did wonders to protect hornwood lands from seaborne raiders

That and the starks needing to focus elsewhere all over the north Also on quick map check Once mandelys were established and karstarks .... the boltons are surrounded thus have to behave!

It does seem strange boltons survived esp given we know the kings of winter have exterminated at least 5 houses (frost, amber,towers ,greenwoods and ,greystarks) and house blackwood fled the north so prob would be 6 if they hadnt ran! House bolton not only contested control for centuries but on 2 occasions sacked and burnt winterfell as well as flaying starks however when we put it into perspective we know the starks also waged war with the barrowkings (ryswell and dustin and possibly others) for 200 years of conflict in 1000! This on top of various battles vs ironborm,skagosi, vale of arryn, kings beyond the wall and other powerful northern lords like the marsh kings...a history of constant warfare to subdue the north. The very fact boltons could.sack winterfell twice and are top 3 houses in the north by books start hint its always been a rich powerful area with a solid fort! We know at least one of their stark wars they were aligned with the greystarks thus exterminating both houses was probably beyond the starks for that war. We know they also alligned with the starks to throw back forces from the south so have been useful allies. Overall it most likely timing that saved them...they bent the knee by the time the starks had secured such a stranglehold of the north that wiping out house bolton wasnt worth the effort nor was any futute resistance likely.

They have become the norths masters by a mix of well earned loyalty and of course brutal warfare and strength. Loyaltywise we know the hot spas help keep alive the population of wintertown and many of the mountain clans as well as.possibly minor lords around them so they have large base of loyal troops to call their own, ned is even suggested to have a grandparent that was married into the clans if i recall. We know they drove pirates away from the south then sheltered the manderlys and gave them the white knife to be prosperous BUT they had also done the same for their treacherous blood kin sucessors there and had to dig them out and exterminate them to set an example They have been ardent supporters of the nightwatch even giving them vast swathes of land and plenty of its sons, despite tgeir rivalry with boltons they allied to drive andal invasion put and even punish it The karstarks are linked to them by blood and the flints of flints finger + mormonts owe them for everything they have for the wars they waged driving off the ironborn (helping the flints on east coast establish a new linked house on the west coast probably helped establish deep loyalty and grattitude there too) The starks we know also have brutaly put down rebellion , wiped out 4 houses and sent the blackwoods south , fought long hard wars with boltons and dustins etc for control of the north , taking daughters of defeated enemies as wives .....with the warg king it may have brought in the gift to their bloodline helping them subdue the marsh peoples liike reeds etc. But again to counter that they also went north usualy allied with umbers (right in the wildling firing line being so far north so they would be deeply grateful of the stark help ) to fight and sometimes die to stop kings beyond the wall as well as fighting the 'savages' on skagos to earn its fealty. Their overlordship is tied positively to myth/semi myth times in possibly helping build the wall, drive giants and skinchangers out of the north, and possibly helped stop the others before. Overall their history seems to be one where they have battered neighbours into submisson but also gained long lasting loyalty throuh assisting and even helping found houses. Ned of course helped by setting an honourable example, lunching with vassals but ensuring justice was made firm but fair by himself carrying out the sentence where possible old style. Being a victorious battle harded war commander helps whos honour meant he refused to hide his bastard and whom people some probably wrongly think beat arthur dayne in personal combat!

No way essos is my fav part of the books was just talkig about her mania Essos is facinating, In many ways it sorta feels like we are getting the pov of the least developed part of the world in westeros!

Im not saying itd be a more interesting story no but we are taking about mania , if she walked away from this mania to rule westeros its be good for all. Plus Unlike the others dany has had time and distance to put it behind her and unlike the others she now knows her dad was insane thus got what was comming to him..she has no longer any righteous anger or vengance to motivate her

Even in her current society she could have simply walked away from her 'claim' Been a good khalassi to drogo and shut up about westeros or done her duty as widow and went to vaes dothrak, settled one of the ruined cities in the red waste with her followers and made it flourish ,gone east to really learn how to control her beasts (iv already gone into how dangerous bringing back these things to breed without knowledge to control them is onnother threads) sold the dragon eggs at quarth and start a trading empire, take up the offer to sail far east to the jade sea etc etc

Normal for the 0.001% you mean

It IS his by right dammit One realm, one god , one king! Stannis stannis stannis!! Yeah but she actualy found happiness..had she walked away from.her claim and her brother shed prob be a happy khaleesi baby mama to a mass murderer who wants to sack cities

Doubt that he has a series of brothels and their pimps who would recruit as normal it would take a massive elaborate set up with each former bird acting convincingly like a former village whore come.to the city or a village/city girl fallen on hard times etc, theyd all need to be oscar winning actors 24/7 for their adult lives Plus its rumoured they have no tounges No i feel at a certain age all thes elittle birds are either set to live in the outskirts of pentos well provided for....or are brought to a pit innthe red keep full of lil skeletons etc

They seem.polar opposites on reflection about leading Jon has great ideas , leads from front/example and innovates quite well but doesnt communicate, listen to or sway those under him to his way very well. Also while having naysayers keeps a leader in check he sends away loyal followers that could help.sway others(and keep him safe) and doesnt listen to criticism or umderstand the difference in general grumbling to actual issues his followers have with his policies By contrast danys ideas outside of military (get sellswords drunk, attack at night ,use sewers and diversion attack on mereen to help sewer mission suceed) are just awful however she has a good crew around her and seems.willing to reverse wrong decisions (reopening pits)

Varys little birds..hes been doing this master spy rhimg for.decades...where the hell are all.the adult ones?

Like believing all lives are forfeit so she can rule a country shes never set foot in by divine right of birth? That sort of maddness.

Ser roderick..fetch ice and a basket to send to balon greyjoy!

Hope so Phew

Nope my sweet summer child itl not really ever be the real finish! Hes chosen a few writers he thinks could do a good job making an ending for it BUT it wont be his ending If he dies hes told his wife to burn his outline for the ending and any other new materials hes made !!! Art isnt a democracy he says so apparently fuck us fans if he crokes wel.never know the real ending intended !!!!

Would be exciting if we knew his output of pages per week erc

Both are in over their heads Jon has been taught to rule watching ned and applies some.great long term policies BUT he fails to apply good advice (mel on keeping an entourage to stay safe ) and communicate his ideas over to those who oppose him. Hes been correctly taught that dissent must be struck down (slynt) but fails to make sure it doesnt get that far by listening to those who objected to ideas and trying to sway them or think of ways to mulify their anger. The response to the pink letter was simply awful , without soild heads or dissenters around him he acted on instinct badly. Dany is fucking up far worse BUT in fairness shes ruling on a much bigger scale than jon in an area that is largely alien to her so is learning to swim in a much bigger pool, shes got good advisors around and generaly listens to them but still makes horrible choices (daario) and is often lost for what shel do for the long term

Ok swapping their starting points If dany was sent to the wall shed have been raped so many times youd think the russian army had been there If jon had been offered to khal drago as a bride his khalassar would have burnt pentos to ashes (then again he is supposed to be pretty so who knows)

Maybe early.when they fled the prospect of them becomming used to take westeros throne was still realistic...over time as it became obvious that wasnt happening they lost all value and thus no one cared anymore