SeanF

Murdering children (leaving aside its immorality) does ensure that they need never trouble you in the future. Of course, it does ensure that your own children will be murdered if fortune turns against you. I think that the (likely) capture of Kings Landing will see Tommen, Myrcella, and Margaery all meet very cruel ends.

Creating a much bigger role for Margaery was one thing I welcomed in the show. I find her an enigma in the books. Is she just her family’s pawn, or is she sly and ruthless in her own right? In general, the Tyrells are just as brutal as the Lannisters, but they make better use of PR.

If nothing else, I’d like to see all the big cliffhangers from Dance resolved.

Sansa is stuck up and stupid, through most of Book 1, which must be a remnant of her originally being intended as a villain. After Ned’s death, she learns empathy and compassion. The two D’s followed that quite closely (and I love pretty much all her scenes in season 2). But, her tale goes wrong in Season 5. She would never have willingly wed Ramsay. The two D’s then “put it right”, subsequently, by turning her into Cersei 2.0.

We've got Maelor being pulled apart, as well.

This is the response from the Mormonts: Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK. This is the exchange between Ser Davos and Wylla Manderly: What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance! Yes. They killed Lord Eddard and Lady Catelyn and King Robb. He was our king! He was brave and good and the Freys murdered him. If Lord Stannis will avenge him, we should join Lord Stannis. Lord Manderly to Ser Davos Wylla. Did you see how brave she was? Even when I threatened to have her tongue out, she reminded me of the debt White Harbor owes to the Starks of Winterfell, a debt that can never be repaid. Wylla spoke from the heart ... not every woman can be as brave as my Wylla. Hugo Wull: I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned's little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue. Insofar as anyone thinks of Sansa, they would assume she was a prisoner, or by now, dead, after the death of Joffrey. But, I think the quotes above show what the North thinks of the Starks in general.

Plainly the people in the North think very highly of the Starks - as witness the Manderlys, the Mormonts, the Mountain Clans, and Stannis' desire to associate his cause with avenging House Stark. Places that suffered at the hands of Northern soldiers, such as Duskendale, or the Westerlands will think poorly of them. Feelings are probably somewhat mixed in the Riverlands. The Red Wedding is considered a heinous crime (as it is everywhere), but there is probably some resentment at the fact that Robb's marriage to Jeyne Westerling had such disastrous consequences.

The problem with show Cersei/Tyrion/Tywin being given a coat of whitewash, compared to the books, is that it upended the tale.

The Greatjon’s argument for independence is that their oaths of fealty were to the Targaryens, who are now gone.

If the books were to end with a showdown between Daenerys and the Starks, I could understand fans picking one side or the other (and if it were to end like that, I suspect that the author would wish to make both sides sympathetic). Picking the Lannisters or Freys, or Boltons, over the Starks makes no sense at any level, since the Lannisters are Dany's enemies, and she would be disgusted by both Freys and Boltons.

That the show runners had a very cavalier attitude towards towards the actors’ safety seems quite clear to me. WRT Rory McCann, disregarding great lines from the book (eg “only Cat”, “Ed, fetch me a block), was a constant. Drogo/Dany in the books is pretty disturbing. But, it was intended as a romance. I think that having Dany explicitly raped was there for shock value. It was a great character arc; molested by her brother, raped by her husband, and finally stabbed through the boob by her nephew/lover.

One of the oddities of Bernard Cornwall’s writing is how he occasionally gets the geography of Britain wrong. I remember scratching my head in one book where the Saxons burn Dunstable and the burning is smelled as far away as Andover.

Jon and Ned and Robb have excellent reputations across the North which is why Stannis is so keen to be associated with them. By contrast, the reputation of the Lannisters is (literally) in the toilet. Cersei is famous for her naked slut walk; Tywin, for being murdered on the privy; Tyrion as a parricide; Jaime as the man who murdered his king. The Freys are so hated that every man with a weapon slays them on sight.

When Emilia Clarke was allowed to act, she did well. One of the (very few) good points of Season 8 was that she was allowed to act. Most of the time, the two D’s wanted her to be an icon, rather than a person.

Tamzin Merchant would have been ideal as book Daenerys, who is often playful and charming, IMHO. But, D & D wanted to erase that part of her character.

The Mummer’s Dragon was introduced quite early into the tale, so fAegon was always there in some form, even if the tale grew in the telling.

A proper assassin always has his escape route worked out, before he strikes. This one had none. Even if a faceless man were unaffordable, there are other competent men and women for hire.

Succeed or fail, the hit on Daenerys and Rhaego makes good sense - not as a way of protecting Robert, but as a way of provoking Drogo’s revenge. The hit itself was amateurish in the extreme. I think that was deliberate.

I love the title of this thread. But not as much as I did one meme, which had Spock saying: ”They’re Trump’s toupees, Captain. They’ve been breeding.”

I do think opinions of later seasons of GOT have got worse over time. People will forgive a lot, if they get a good ending. Now most people only talk of the show’s flaws. The show has no rewatch value for me. What’s the point, when the end of it all is a nihilistic mess?

WRT the portrayal of women, well there are plenty of historical figures to choose from who were neither victims, nor empowered girlbosses. Catherine the Great, Maria Theresa of Austria, Elizaveta, Catherine de Medici, Isabella of France etc.

It was Peter Dinklage’s reaction to the fans’ criticism of Season 8 that made me think he’s unlikeable. The two D’s had favourites (like Peter Dinklage, and Lena Headey) and Benioff saw his father in Tywin, who was “lawful neutral”, tough but fair, whereas, in their eyes, a character like Daenerys was always evil. I suspect they disliked Kit Harrington, with all the jokes about his height and penis size. With his unfunny practical jokes, and stunts like waterboarding Hannah Waddingham, or Ros’ eroticised death scene (Esme Bianco was being severely abused at the time), Benioff comes over as particularly unpleasant.

We get the fall of Astapor from his POV, and yet, Dany has already been told how terrible things got there. OTOH, Quentyn's story does resonate with me. We also learn through him that the Windblown are willing to defect. I'm not bothered about including Quentyn's POV. I do think that both Dany's and Tyrion's chapters should have been pruned., which would have given space to round off the Meereenese storyline with the battle for the city.

I did feel so sorry for Quentyn. Quentyn was me, at the age of 18.

George should have them gone on to ask, “Well, that was an easy one. Give me the identity of the Alchemist, and the Ghost of High Heart?” As to your last point, a friend said to me, “D & D were paid millions for producing crapulent fanfiction. Why aren’t I?”