Castellan

I have had it in the back of my mind that the male Frey heirs will be whittled off by Black Walder, Westeros civil war, the battle of Ice and Fire, and perhaps by conquest by other Houses. Then the female heirs will be married off to men from dominant houses who become the actual rulers of the Frey castle and lands. This was partly based on the Biblical story of the tribe of Benjamin who violated guest right and other tribes thought this was such an offence that the males were slaughtered and the women married to other tribes. (this is based on internet browsing and I have a very tenuous grasp on the story) However I just did another browse around the web and found that apparently the story went on that the idea of annihilating a whole house was so abhhorent that the decision to slaughter wasn't carried out as completely as planned. They decided to let some men live. However the wiki says that at present after Edwyn, Edwyn's only child Walda would inherit. ie she comes before Black Walder so her life may be in imminent danger! So the female would be getting whittled down as well as the males. Then again she may be Black Walder's child as he is said to have slept with Edwyn's wife. Perhaps he could become defacto ruler by being the person who acts like her hand or guardian. I think GRRM must have had fun creating this house. I wonder what a family tree of actual weasels would look like. I have started to picture Black Walder as a black weasel, hopping around leaving his genetic imprint on a whole weasel colony. (If they live in colonies.)

Glad to hear it. I wondered if it was some sort of joke he'd made or something to annoy crazy fans.

That is horrific! Why on earth surrender his own ending and pass it to people who would probably rather he left them an outline anyway. Reading some of the crazy threads on this forum and the amount of disagreement about everything makes me wonder what they'd come up with.

Attributing all sorts of machinations and ambitions to Sansa is silly. She has not yet grown up enough to make plans. She has however taken on some of her false persona and sees Petyr somewhat as her father. She is stuck with caring for Sweetrobin because she was nice to him and is the only one with the ability to persuade him. She will probably be the one to give him too much sweetsleep because she is stuck with his care, the Maester has already waffled and given him too much and said no more for six months when that is totally unrealistic when it is the only way to control his behaviour and Petyr will demand his behaviour is controlled. She will rationalise that a little more won't hurt. Petyr's character has reference to Faust and in Goethe's Faust, Faust seduces Gretchen. He persuades her to give a sleeping potion to her mother so that Gretchen can have trysts with Faust; her mother eventually dies. Her brother challenges to Faust about his seduction of Gretchen and is killed. Gretbhen gives birth to an illegitimate child and drowns it, is arrested and sentenced to death. Petyr has already played out this poisoning scenario with Lysa poisoning or believing she has poisoned Jon Arryn, now he is doing it again with Sansa, but so far there is no sign she will be consciously going along with his plans, just harrassed into taking the short term way to calm Robin down.

don't know if someone has raised this in the 29 pages so far of this thread, but Ty+win could just be that Tywin has to win. Maybe its a warning the Reynes should have paid attention to.

I share your thinking on the ones I have read that you mention. I re-read Elly Griffiths Ruth Galloway series in one long binge during COVID. I found it had been long enough since first reading that I could do it without remembering whodunnit on the first page. I also prefer them to her magic men series, but I really did enjoy the novelty of the first of the magic men books. I read your post and wondered who Harbinder Kaur was. I checked my kindle and found out I had read them! Clearly they didn't grab me. I really liked the Magpie Murders, enough to buy all the following post moderny ones. I found each worse than the other. Basically utterly boring. Didn't bother finishing the last. Likewise I started the first Richard Osman and quite enjoyed it but for some reason didn't finish. It was so much a self conscious feel good confection that it cant have gripped me that much. I've read a few Louise Penny's and they are good but not a favourite of mine. When I read the first of Rowling's Strike novels published under a different name I though that it was extremely polished and nailed the genre and liked that it reminded me of all the previous PIs who are veterans of other wars and all their secretaries. This I liked. But they got progressively grim and found myself unwilling to enter into the grimness of the crimes or the pointlessness of all the miserable relationship complications. Must be old age, I think. Ann Cleeves of course is the best! I have recently gobbled up the latest Bosch book and the latest Robert Crais. Bosch manages to be not quite dead at the end so can't say its the final Bosch.

I have not read this thread before because I thought it was someone setting out the facts of the story of ASOIF - ie summarising the narrative. Now I have read the opening posts they are really interesting. Maybe the thread could have a title more like Writing/Publication History of A Song and Ice and Fire

Do you mean Catelyn in particular for what she did to him? Not that he didn't despise and hate Lysa. Robert is quite likely his son, but I think he is so hateful that he would actually be the type to torment his own son, and since Sweetrobin is not in any way a credit to him he will have no positive feelings about probably being his father, whatsoever.

I doubt Sansa will deliberately kill Robin. That is not in her character. However, she is the one copping the burden of caring for the child Lysa has created, under the aegis of Petyr who has taken on somewhat of the role of father in her mind, and would clearly get rid of Robin if it suited him. I think that there is a set up for the reader to wonder if Robin will die from a dose given by Sansa, when the Maester says he must have no more for some time. His fits and impossible behaviour will continue, she will still be there trying to cater to his moods, and if Petyr tells her to give him more she may, even though the Maester has said no more. After all, she has got used to giving it to him, it gets a result, and if that Maester is not right there on the spot to say no she could easily decide that one more couldn't hurt or just be overridden by Petyr's will. That is not the same as cold bloodedly deciding to knock him off. And it may not happen. I think we are supposed to be wondering if it will but there could be a surprise.

was he dead before Robert's rebellion?

dream on... its a subjective thing... and finishing may be a lot less motivating than starting was.

I checked out The Rising Tid

Based on this thread I've read the first in this series and liked it (although by the climactic showdown at the end I was starting to feel there were just too many scenes involving sneaking into a building then having to jump out through the window or off the roof...) so I have bought the second. I liked it partly because of pure escapism and the sad wistful tone underlying our hero's daring feats.

I have seen a Dr Killer on a surgery list. When my father went to a one class schoolroom he had a female teacher Miss Sweet and a male head teacher Mr Cane.

Same here is Australia. Currently I am visiting Vic from my home in NSW (which I rarely leave) and am aware of all the risks I am running. The fact that hardly anyone wears a mask means that I keep forgetting too! And the medical experts here and elsewhere saying just vaccination isn't enough. Then there's dismal weather with rain rain rain probably due to climate change... I feel like my house in the blue mountains is sinking in the mud (its not literally as yet...) I must say there has been a bit of sun the last two days and my mood went up straight away, so I can understand northern hemisphere cheer!

During COVID I went on some rereading binges, as I found it had been long enough since first read that it was worthwhile. I reread all of Elly Griffiths series centring on an archaeologist. I also found the MItchell and Markby series of village cosies by Ann Granger. I had read some of her Fran Varaday books around the time they came out and found them OK, and later her Victorian mysteries with a policeman and his wife which I liked (I didn't even realised it was the same author as the Fran Varaday series). The Mitchell and Markby are quite dated now but I liked them and just read the whole lot. So disappointing there can't be more! I am dependent on there being e-book versions now, as I never mastered reading glasses when there was an easier alternative, and that's how I found the Mitchell and Markby series. They were probably out of print or just not around when I was browsing in book shops.

Here's a part of the scene: The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor. Ser Waymar met him bravely. "Dance with me then." He lifted his sword high over his head, defiant. His hands trembled from the weight of it, or perhaps from the cold. Yet in that moment, Will thought, he was a boy no longer, but a man of the Night's Watch. The Other halted. Will saw its eyes; blue, deeper and bluer than any human eyes, a blue that burned like ice. They fixed on the longsword trembling on high, watched the moonlight running cold along the metal. For a heartbeat he dared to hope. They emerged silently from the shadows, twins to the first. Three of them … four … five … Ser Waymar may have felt the cold that came with them, but he never saw them, never heard them. Will had to call out. It was his duty. And his death, if he did. He shivered, and hugged the tree, and kept the silence. The pale sword came shivering through the air. My take is the Other emerges to size him up. When Waymar raises and thus displays his sword the Other 'watches the moonlight running coldly along the metal" and for a minute Will dares to hope because he sees the Other is considering his sword - he hopes with fear. But the Other, and his 'twins' see that this is not a flaming sword and proceed to kill him. They are not showing honour but the caution that an animal or a human would show before attacking a new foe. The prologue is a prologue to the whole series and shows the Others emerging and the failure of Waymar because he is not the last hero or Azor Ahai - his sword is made of plain cold steel. The Other's sword is made of some unearthly icy substance.

Very delayed response to a post. I had the same reaction, but I have recently seen the first episode of the series made from the first book, and really enjoyed it. I wasn't that keen to see it but I'm glad I did. Maybe what is a bit thin in a book seems like more when adapted for TV?

Merry Christmas Its a lovely day and I am enjoying the (almost) absolute silence here. This is highway town and I have been used to the constant background rumble. Also everyone is staying home in their nests so no local traffic. A little taste of peace on earth.

Hmmm well its Tuesday and I did nothing of note on the weekend, but that is absolutely standard. Right now I am in bed idling browsing on computer while acting as a heating pad for my arthritic cat. But I hope you had some weekend fun, Buckwheat.

well was it delicious anyway? congratulations!

I had a little bit of excitement yesterday - i was going out with two of my sisters to a cafe in this sleepy seaside place I am visiting when we found ouselves in the middle of a tactical response group attempt to arrest some suspects - I say attempt, they succeeded in that they halted one of them by running them over. It was all very confusing especially since the officers were wearing khaki military style outfits and black balaclavas, which seem like army not police, but I googled the state police forces and found out that the top level of tactical response group have lately changed their uniform to khaki. We had parked in a car park behind shops and I did notice a slightly suspicious group of youngish people around a car. It was a taxi and all the doors were sitting open but the people looked fairly relaxed and chatty. Then suddenly SUVs driven at speed came in both ends of the laneway to the car park. It was very confusing, two of them were swooping around in formation, they were not marked as police cars, there were men in khaki hanging out the windows, we were backing away afraid of being run over. Apparently they did get two people on the ground and arrested at the car, but two fled on foot right past us - not that we noticed as we were looking the other way!. We went to the cafe and found the drama had resolved around the corner on the main road. There were lots of black police SUVs as well as the coloured ones that had been racing around and were now pulled up in the centre of the road. The traffic was being redirected by these black cars, and there were also a couple of white vans with plainclothes police driving them, dressed to look like tradesmen. There were two ambulances already there and two female plains clothes detectives going over the ground for evidence and putting it in plastic bags. They took one person away in an ambulance pretty quickly but it apparently took some time to get the other out from under the car. Eventually he was sent off as well. All these vehicles must have been standing by really close to get there that quickly. I looked up the police unit I think it was and as well as responding to terrorist incidents they assist with arresting dangerous suspects ie armed ones known to be dangerous. The other people in the cafe were arguing over whether they had seen an automatic pistol or a longer gun, so I guess the suspects running away were armed.

aha. and I could pick Lannister!

I am having trouble with this new look. The colours and the winter scene remind me of Christmas cards. It generally seems odd.

sounds like life in Planetos but on a mini scale