Jump to content


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Eden-Mackenzie

  • Rank
    Landed Knight

Profile Information

  • Gender

Recent Profile Visitors

1,618 profile views
  1. Eden-Mackenzie

    Why did Stannis marry Selyse Florent?

    I never said they rebelled because they were an influential family, but it was clearly one of the contributing factors for both the rebellion and its successes. As was their possession of King’s Landing at the onset - if Otto, Aegon, and the rest had been in Oldtown instead of King’s Landing when Viserys died, things could have played out very differently. Yes, Stannis would have done as commanded, if he was commanded, but if he had any choice in the matter, say between a pretty child bride or Selyse, it does not seem out of character for Stannis to choose Selyse. And since we know absolutely nothing of the history of the majority of the negotiations of marriages in the books, you cannot truly say there were plenty of options for Stannis. I remember a few years ago there being a discussion of how implausible it was for Ned to have not made marriage pacts for any of his children, but in particular Robb, Sansa, and Arya, before the onset of story. All of those marriages between Stannis’s possible brides and their not-Stannis husbands could have been arranged before, or even during, Robert’s Rebellion.
  2. Eden-Mackenzie

    Why did Stannis marry Selyse Florent?

    A small council led by Otto Hightower, who had a history of being against Daemon, but who also saw a chance to make his grandson king and took it, he probably saw it as a win-win that Aegon’s crown would come at Daemon’s expense. As you’ve pointed out, the green side was already at a disadvantage on paper. Without Hightower support and Hightower allies, it would have been even more pronounced, and may have never gotten off the ground. Asha Greyjoy and Arianne Martell were each about 10 when Stannis married Selyse, but seeing as Balon Greyjoy was just a few years short of rebelling, and Arianne was being saved for Viserys, each would have made excuses, and Stannis doesn’t seem the type to take a child bride besides. It’s easy to say surely one of the families would have had a better candidate than Selyse, but we don’t really have enough information to definitively prove that point - we don’t have a complete history of engagements amongst the lords and ladies of Westeros. Lollys Stokeworth is of an age with Stannis, and is definitely available, but that match would hardly have been advantageous. Walder Frey would likely have had multiple daughters and granddaughters of the right age and unmarried/not engaged, but the Freys aren’t really held in high regard either.
  3. Eden-Mackenzie

    Why did Stannis marry Selyse Florent?

    Starks: no adult women. Tullys: no adult unmarried women. Arryns: no adult women. Lannisters: no adult unmarried women. Tyrells: no adult women. Martells: no adult women. Greyjoys: no adult women. Baratheons: no adult women (just for completeness). Stannis wasn’t going to marry a Lord Paramount’s daughter or sister, there weren’t any available. My point in mentioning Stannis no longer being first in line was just that - he’s no longer first. Yes, he’s still in the line of succession, and yes, first born son is not guaranteed to inherit the throne, but now that Robert has a (nominal) heir, from the viewpoint of the throne, Stannis doesn't need a politically strong marriage. Stannis marrying someone from a minor house actually helps solidify Joffrey’s position, since if Robert were to, oh I don’t know, die young and unexpectedly, Stannis could get the idea to challenge the underaged Joffrey for his throne. While I’m sure Robert wasn’t too up on his history lessons, I guarantee Jon Arryn and Tywin Lannister were: the Dance of the Dragons was able to happen because of Aegon II’s Hightower relatives; if his mother had been from a lesser house, they wouldn’t have been able to usurp the throne as easily as they did. So yeah, a Florent marriage for Stannis the Heir doesn’t make political sense, but for Stannis the only-going-to-keep-moving-down-the-line it makes perfect sense, from the view of the crown.
  4. “Honey, I’m home, I brought my sister’s bones, Willem Dustin’s horse, and my son Jon.” Little did anyone realize, Ned was playing two truths and a lie... Like everyone else has said, Ned didn’t need to convince anyone, he’s the honorable Eddard Stark, Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North. If he says he has a bastard son, he must have a bastard son. I don’t recall anyone doubting Ned is Jon’s father, the only discussions have been trying to figure out who is the mother, which if anything is in line with Ned’s character - he isn’t someone who would unnecessarily ruin the reputation of the mother just to save himself.
  5. No, she was born in 271/2, and if you think Stannis would have been interested in marrying a seemingly vain, shallow, selfish 14/15 year old, we clearly haven’t been reading the same books. I’m not sure Robert ever acted from a “let’s do something nice for Stannis” perspective, even naming him Lord of Dragonstone has some controversy surrounding it. If anything, Robert and Renly both seem to have enjoyed irking Stannis, so maybe the match was just one big joke to Robert. Or maybe Robert had absolutely nothing to do with the match, and it was arranged by Jon Arryn or even Stannis himself for reasons unknown. Unless the next installment of supplemental material published includes a Westerosi gossip column covering the years since Robert’s Rebellion, we are likely never to know what led to a majority of the marriages. What we do know is proposed matches can be made and fall apart for a variety of reasons. Look at all the stories we do know the details of: Robert, Catelyn, Robb, Edmure, Sansa, basically all of the Martells, and so on. Who’s to say Lynesse didn’t have a string of failed betrothals behind her by the time she met Jorah? Maybe she was engaged to old Lord What’s It, who died of a cough, and then young Lord Who’s It, who was abducted by pirates, then Ser That Guy, who had always loved the miller’s daughter, and then, just as her father starts negotiating to marry her to the second son of Lord The Other Guy, he goes and dies storming the walls of Pyke. And who’s to say Lord Leyton didn’t just want her out of his hair? We simply do not have that information. What information we do have is the marriages Lynesse’s siblings, in particular her sisters, have made: Baelor, the heir, who once hoped to marry Elia Martell, Princess of Dorne, is married to a Rowan, which is basically a lateral move. Two other brothers appear to be unmarried, and a fourth is married to a Green Apple Fossoway. Malora is unmarried. Alerie is married to Mace Tyrell, and clearly wins the competition for best political match. Leyla is married to Ser Jon Cupps, Denyse is married to Ser Desmond Redwyne, and Alysanne is married to Lord Arthur Ambrose, who is at least a lord and not just a lord’s relative. So, all things considered, Lord Mormont is, on paper, one of the better matches made by the Hightower daughters, especially when you consider the extremely recent events of the Greyjoy Rebellion and tourney at Lannisport - Jorah looked to be the next big hero.
  6. Stannis married Selyse in 286/7, Jorah married Lynesse in 289, so no.
  7. Eden-Mackenzie

    Why did Stannis marry Selyse Florent?

    They were married before Stannis had a cause, and after Robert had a legal heir (or at least had one on the way). I doubt Stannis would have fallen in love with anyone, so it seems the likeliest explanation for their marriage was it was time for Stannis to get married and Selyse was available. It wasn’t a love match, and it wasn’t politically advantageous, which really just leaves marriage of convenience.
  8. It seems you’ve forgotten there had just been two wars, those tend to have a negative impact on the male population. And it’s not like the Hightowers were the only house needing to find spouses. Margaery’s current status has exactly zero bearing on Jorah’s and Lynesse’s marriage, seeing as there was no marriage pact between the Tyrells and Baratheons at the time of the tourney, and anyone who was aware of the recent events between the two families wouldn’t think it would be forthcoming. This current attempt to belittle the Mormonts is actually a point in favor of the match. As a lord with a lot of children, your best way to gain influence across the realm is to make a variety of matches, outside of your bannermen. Marrying your children to your bannermen doesn’t really increase your standing at all - in feudal systems, your bannermen are expected to be loyal to you simply by virtue of being your bannermen. By choosing to marry his daughter to a family the Starks hold in high regard, Lord Leyton is actually taking steps to strengthen ties between the Hightowers and the Starks. I am not saying this was his intention, since as others have stated it was probably just a convenient way to get rid of an inconvenient daughter, but it could have been turned into a perk, if events hadn’t transpired the way they did. By the time the Lysa-Jon Arryn match was proposed, Jon had lost his last heir, and Lysa’s proven fertility was one of the reasons Jon agreed to the marriage. The marriage wasn’t an immediate disaster, Jon couldn’t have known Lysa would end up poisoning him...
  9. Eden-Mackenzie

    How did Rhaegar get his reputation as a warrior?

    Robert Baratheon and his war hammer isn’t really the same thing as some “dude with a hammer.” Robert loved using his war hammer, which was created specifically for him by Donal Noye, just as Needle was created specifically for Arya. Losing to Robert and his war hammer is not an indication of being a lesser warrior. However, IIRC, the discussions of Rhaegar being a great warrior mostly come from Dany’s chapters, and Dany’s source was Viserys, who was biased to the extreme, and just like with her beliefs about her father, Barristan has to delicately set the record straight. Rhaegar was not a great warrior prince, but that does not mean he was unskilled.
  10. Eden-Mackenzie

    Why didn’t the Wildlings tell the NW about the Others?

    Pretty sure Craster is ostracized by the rest of the Free Folk, thanks to the whole “marrying his daughters and sacrificing his sons” thing. Which honestly makes Craster a terrible example for your premise - Craster has a mildly tenable relationship with the Nights Watch, and even he didn’t tell them he was sacrificing his sons to the White Walkers. Yes, they knew his sons all died, but they did not know he was giving them to the ultimate enemy. Craster only dealt with the Rangers as a means of survival - without the assistance of a larger community, Craster’s only hope for survival was the additional resources he got from the Rangers. The rest of the Free Folk have spent their lives battling the Nights Watch, and they’ve survived by taking what they need, not by asking nicely, so it’s understandable they would be hesitant to walk up to a group of guys, whose sole job is keep them from crossing the wall, and tell them the undead are alive and coming to kill us all. And as we’ve seen, even after knowing the Others are real, decent portions of both groups are still hesitant to work together, but especially the Nights Watch (see the mutiny against Jon Snow, as one example). So yeah, I think the actions of the Free Folk are pretty on point when considering how they’ve been treated up to this point.
  11. Eden-Mackenzie

    Minor/offscreen characters you want to see more of

    Another vote for Hoster Blackwood - the way he was introduced he is clearly Up To Something.
  12. Eden-Mackenzie

    Songs that Make Us Think of A Song of Ice and Fire

    Korn's Freak on a Leash for Ramsay and Theon
  13. Eden-Mackenzie

    Songs that Make Us Think of A Song of Ice and Fire

    Nah, at least not beyond the title. Sabbath's music is too ... upbeat...? for Theon. Mad World is soooo mournful, and whenever I hear it I imagine Theon roaming the walls of Winterfell with a montage of memories playing in his mind, and song ends when he runs into someone (spearwife, Barbrey Dustin, the Hooded Man, etc.). But maybe that's just me...
  14. Eden-Mackenzie

    Songs that Make Us Think of A Song of Ice and Fire

    Gary Jules's Mad World always makes me think of Theon.