Stanis and north

[BerserkZR]

First, i must say sorry for my bad English. :bang:

I don`t see why Northmen lord must be against Stanis ?
If they get revenge for Ned Stark and Rob. Whit Ricon, who will be lord of Winterfell. Stanis can be a King.
Northman didn't go on war because they want crown.
Ned Stark was sand letter to Stannis and give him support fo clash of kings. If Stanis have that later, he can give proof to North.
They can fight war against Lannisters, and they have better chance.

If somebody can understand me we can discuss on this post :bowdown:

[Shireen Shireen]

Hi Berserk ZR

I think you raise a good question, especially as Manderly made a deal with Davos to support Stannis.

However, if the Northern lords are following King Robb's will, they are looking for Jon to become King in the North, rather than support Stannis.

In addition, Stannis doesn't actually have that many men, I'm not sure they gain a lot by supporting him.

[E-Ro]

There are three types of people that want an independent north.

1. The stark fan that believes they can do no wrong and the norther master race is better then the southern scum.

2. The Jon snow fan that wants him to have EVERYTHING. Including the north even though he's a bastard and no one in their right mind would want an oathbreaking bastard as lord of wf when rickon is available.

3. People that want seven kingdoms again.

I hAve to add, it would be completely and utterly daft for the Northmen to declare independence right now. The only real options they have are to stick with the current lannister regime or go to stannis.

[devilrob6]

Stannis never got the letter from Ned, so he doesn't know that Ned was supporting him. Robb didn't know that either.

After Stannis went North, he seems to have common goals with the Northmen (the ones loyal to the Starks). Winning the battle of Winterfell and returning Rickon may give him more support in the North. But if the Northerners still want independance there will not be peace with Stannis.

The Lannisters seems to be very good in fighting themselves and get into trouble with Faith and the Tyrells. I think the Lannisters will not be the ones that Stannis and the Northmen will have to fight in future books. I hope they'll be going after the Freys to get the Northern hostages released.

[Ally Cat of the canals]

I don't think the north have really thought of opposing Stannis I think they are busy burying their dead and removing the last of the ironborn.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

If the Greatjon hadn't proclaimed Robb king or if Robb hadn't accepted it, then this is what should have happened. The Stannis/North alliance would have had a much better shot at the Iron Throne.

shoulda woulda could

[Addam of Hull]

There are three types of people that want an independent north.

1. The stark fan that believes they can do no wrong and the norther master race is better then the southern scum.

2. The Jon snow fan that wants him to have EVERYTHING. Including the north even though he's a bastard and no one in their right mind would want an oathbreaking bastard as lord of wf when rickon is available.

3. People that want seven kingdoms again.

I hAve to add, it would be completely and utterly daft for the Northmen to declare independence right now. The only real options they have are to stick with the current lannister regime or go to stannis.

I'm... not actually sure how it would be all that daft for the Northmen to declare independence. At the moment, they outnumber Stannis and his troops and if they support Stannis, the gods know they'll be doing much of the fighting. If I were a northmen, given that all other things are mostly equal, I'd choose fighting for a northern king over one I don't know any day of the week.

[devilrob6]

So far the North and Stannis have not been working against eachother. They were just fighting the Lannisters on their own. For instance Robb was hoping to draw Tywin to the west so Stannis would have a better chance at taking King's Landing. Stannis would have returned Sansa to the North if he won King's Landing. Even though there was not an alliance they were both fighting Lannisters, but then Stannis lost the Blackwater and Robb lost his head.

[devilrob6]

I'm... not actually sure how it would be all that daft for the Northmen to declare independence. At the moment, they outnumber Stannis and his troops and if they support Stannis, the gods know they'll be doing much of the fighting. If I were a northmen, given that all other things are mostly equal, I'd choose fighting for a northern king over one I don't know any day of the week.

I think the Northerners would love to fight some Freys. And after Stannis campaign in the North he is no longer a king they don't know.

[shearstone]

There are three types of people that want an independent north.

1. The stark fan that believes they can do no wrong and the norther master race is better then the southern scum.

2. The Jon snow fan that wants him to have EVERYTHING. Including the north even though he's a bastard and no one in their right mind would want an oathbreaking bastard as lord of wf when rickon is available.

3. People that want seven kingdoms again.

I hAve to add, it would be completely and utterly daft for the Northmen to declare independence right now. The only real options they have are to stick with the current lannister regime or go to stannis.

Actually once Rickon is back and the Bolton's defeated it's a great time to declare independence as who the hell will be able to invade them in winter?

[devilrob6]

Actually once Rickon is back and the Bolton's defeated it's a great time to declare independence as who the hell will be able to invade them in winter?

The Others

[KJR the PR of TaFW]

Actually once Rickon is back and the Bolton's defeated it's a great time to declare independence as who the hell will be able to invade them in winter?

WHITE WALKERS!

[KJR the PR of TaFW]

The Others

ninja'd :crying:

[E-Ro]

I'm... not actually sure how it would be all that daft for the Northmen to declare independence. At the moment, they outnumber Stannis and his troops and if they support Stannis, the gods know they'll be doing much of the fighting. If I were a northmen, given that all other things are mostly equal, I'd choose fighting for a northern king over one I don't know any day of the week.

Right now would be a bad time, I think. When Robb did it he had 20 thousand troops that the north no longer has, and he had Jaime lannister hostages. Now? The biggest winter in living memory, they are short 20k men, low on food, exhausted from fighting, their Capitol is burned to the ground, and the others are coming. Right now would be a shit time to go independent.

Actually once Rickon is back and the Bolton's defeated it's a great time to declare independence as who the hell will be able to invade them in winter?

The winter won't last forever. It will eventually end. That's when the south will come for them. And all this ignores the others, anyway.

The time for screaming freedom brave heart style has passed. That time passed at duskendale when the northern infantry was smashed. Now is the time to work together with the south. The lone wolf dies but the pack survives.

[Addam of Hull]

Right now would be a bad time, I think. When Robb did it he had 20 thousand troops that the north no longer has, and he had Jaime lannister hostages. Now? The biggest winter in living memory, they are short 20k men, low on food, exhausted from fighting, their Capitol is burned to the ground, and the others are coming. Right now would be a shit time to go independent. The winter won't last forever. It will eventually end. That's when the south will come for them. And all this ignores the others, anyway.

The time for screaming freedom brave heart style has passed. That time passed at duskendale when the northern infantry was smashed. Now is the time to work together with the south. The lone wolf dies but the pack survives.

And if they fight for Stannis and lose, the south will come for them all the same. I'm not saying I think it's particularly smart for the North to be fighting the South at all -- given the imminent zombie invasion, it isn't -- but at the moment, there is no reason to fight for Stannis over one of their own.

[devilrob6]

ninja'd :crying:

Nah..that's called teamwork :) And you had nice big letters and underlined.

[devilrob6]

And if they fight for Stannis and lose, the south will come for them all the same. I'm not saying I think it's particularly smart for the North to be fighting the South at all -- given the imminent zombie invasion, it isn't -- but at the moment, there is no reason to fight for Stannis over one of their own.

I don't think the South can come for them on short term. They are too busy dealing with Ironborn and Aegon and King's Landing is in chaos with the trial against the two Queens and the murder of Kevan.and Pycelle and i'll doubt they'll march into the North in winter in any case.

[shearstone]

Right now would be a bad time, I think. When Robb did it he had 20 thousand troops that the north no longer has, and he had Jaime lannister hostages. Now? The biggest winter in living memory, they are short 20k men, low on food, exhausted from fighting, their Capitol is burned to the ground, and the others are coming. Right now would be a shit time to go independent. The winter won't last forever. It will eventually end. That's when the south will come for them. And all this ignores the others, anyway.

The time for screaming freedom brave heart style has passed. That time passed at duskendale when the northern infantry was smashed. Now is the time to work together with the south. The lone wolf dies but the pack survives.

The others are irrelevant for the time being only Jon is doing anything to prepare against the invasion. The northern lords don't know/believe anything in regards to an invasion by the others and Stannis knows but is planning to gain the north's support to go south for the throne not use those men to man the wall.

In anycase if the others get past the wall it won't matter whether the north is independent or not the south won't come to their aid unless the realm is united under Stannis and that's highly unlikely and even if he managed it, it would cost the realm a lot of fighting men in the meantime.

Yes winter will come to an end but not for a good many years and we have no way of knowing what condition the realm will be in at this time so it's worth the risk particularly if the south continues it's current level of infighting.

Supporting Stannis gets them nothing over a Stark king as the only men supporting Stannis would be the northmen so they have nothing to gain from the association.

[Addam of Hull]

I don't think the South can come for them on short term. They are too busy dealing with Ironborn and Aegon and King's Landing is in chaos with the trial against the two Queens and the murder of Kevan.and Pycelle and i'll doubt they'll march into the North in winter in any case.

It was meant as an eventuality. Either way, they're rebels and the risk is essentially the same for them either way. The advantage to supporting Stannis is the possibility that they won't have to worry about the Iron Throne coming for them, but it's risky and dicey because Stannis doesn't have much power at the moment. If they decide to go for independence, all they really have to do is bide their time for the moment. Of course, there will be less people when winter is through. Either way, there are too many variables for anyone to really say which choice is better, because there is substantial risk either way, but I do think it's more likely that the North will eventually pursue their ambitions over someone elses.

[aceluby]

I think the relationship between Stannis and the North is best described in how the two sides take on the march to WF. The Northern mountain clans lost one person while Stannis' army lost hundreds and almost all of their animals. This leads me to two questions. The first being, why didn't Stannis try and learn from the mountain clans to get help and maybe save his army? The second being, why didn't the clans help him w/out being asked instead of getting days ahead of Stannis' army? I believe they both have a bit of contempt for each other and they are a means to an end vs an actual aliance that will last.