Did Stannis honestly ever have a chance?

[aceluby]

I don't get it. How did threatening Robb make him lose the Blackwater? The Starks couldn't have helped him with that, could they?

Why not? Who else were they fighting? The Lannisters went back to KL.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

A literary end. It's pretty evident that he's not AAR, who is supposedly the hero. Many in-universe people who follow him believe him to be the hero, which is why they follow him (Queen's men). The battle against the Others is iminent. You have the 'hero' with a fake sword, going all heroic on them only to die a horrible death. At that point the story can either go into a horror story of the Others killing all of Westeros, or another hero will be born out of his failure and arrogance. Either way it will be a major plot moving device, IMO.

I don't think such an end would be fitting. Do we really need another confirmation that Stannis isn't some prophesied epic hero? Only a handful of men in Westeros care about the prophecy anyway, and none of the pov-characters is among those, so such an end would have absolutely no impact. Or rather, it wouldn't make the coming of the Others scarier for anybody (aside from the Queen's men, who are relatively unimportant). As I said before, if this is supposed to be it, we could have had someone else saving the Wall.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Why not? Who else were they fighting? The Lannisters went back to KL.

Doesn't it mean that Robb was already helping?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

He's actually the heir to the Throne under Targaryen rule (Assuming Griff is fake) so if Dany dies, he 's the rightful Targ King along with the rightful Baratheon King.

Jon comes before Stannis.

[Antler's Fury]

DWD- Now Stannis is effectively trapped in the North and the only reason that any Northern House is allied to him is for revenge against the Frey-Bolton Coaltion and if we take the GNC into consideration, the best case scenario doesn't look to benefit Stannis too much. The Northmen are using Stannis for their own goals and as soon as they no longer have a common enemy, they most likely won't bend knee and pledge themselves to Stannis as King.

And why should we take the GNC seriously at all? Are the Northern Lords really so stupid as to make a permanent enemy of the South? And that too, with the Others coming, and the South having the only supply of dragonglass? No one in the South supports Northern independence, and sooner or later, someone will unite the region, whether it is Tommen, Aegon, or Dany. Forget Northern independence, none of those parties are even supportive of the Starks being in power, as Stannis is. The North may be protected by Winter for now, but at some point, the South will come for them, if the Others don't beat them to it.

In fact, Jon refused his offer of being legitimized as a Stark/Lord of Winterfell and denied Stannis of his best chance of uniting the North under his banner.

And what happens when Davos shows up with Rickon?

In hindsight, the only thing that gave him a realistic chance in the first place was that an act of god caused his brother to die which fragmented his very large army, a part of which declared for Stannis.

And yet somehow, Stannis remains in the running, while people with more resources and better chances, like Renly, Robb, and Joffrey, are dead. Stannis knew his chances were slim from the start. He just didn't care. He's also been outnumbered in grim situations before, like the Seige of Storm's End and the Battle of Castle Black, and survived them.

Could Stannis have taken King's Landing with just his fleet?

No.

He could cause severe damage assuming that ships in asoiaf have canons and if the crews of the ship were trained for combat, but he wouldn't be able to take or hold the city.

They don't have canons. If they did, castles would be largely obsolete.

Stannis serves a plot purpose.

...as opposed to...?

He is mid series filler.

There are plenty of characters whose stories could be dismissed as filler. Take Robb for instance, who does little of value apart from die. Or Dany, whose story is mostly irrelevant to the Westerosi plotlines. But Stannis, on the other hand, will determine the future of the North one way or the other in the battle for Winterfell. Also, in all likelihood, his story will involve some kind of fight with the Others, who are the most important enemy in the series. Hardly filler.

Note how he does not feature in any of the long term prophecies, other than as a lie that has to be slain.

He seems to feature in Patchface's prophecies.

The crown. The Crown's army is at least 70 thousand strong. They would mop him off the edge of the world.

Lannister strength is being wasted in the Riverlands, and the only commander they have on hand would be Daven Lannister. I'm not sure where he is. The bulk of the Crown's forces would be the Tyrells, and the only capable commander they have would be Randyll. However, their participation would probably be contingent upon Marg's surviving her trial. The Crown is only strong if its alliance holds, and it seems to be on the verge of breaking.

As far as I remember, the only person who was promoted by Stannis was Davos, who is a special case.

Don't forget Rolland Storm, the Bastard of Nightsong. He was in command of Dragonstone.

Davos had to be rewarded for keeping Storm's End alive during the Rebellion and a knighthood plus some lands would probably be considered appropriate by the other lords. This is no more than Tyrion and Tywin did for Bronn after the Blackwater.

Yet, Stannis keeps Davos on as an advisor after the war instead of just rewarding him and sending him off. In contrast, Bronn was Tyrion's friend and bodyguard, but was never an advisor as Davos was to Stannis; he also did not receive lands until Tyrion's trial. Stannis values Davos for his counsel, not just as a hired thug like Bronn or the Cleganes. Further, Stannis' statements about "making new lords" and "to be lordly is to be false" as well as his emphasis on class-blind justice, suggest a deeper commitment to meritocracy than anything the Lannisters have shown.

And Davos became Stannis' Hand when Stannis basically had no other choice -- he had run out of other lords by that time.

No he hadn't. No one, not even Davos himself, expected that Davos would become Hand. Stannis could have let Alester Florent's treason slide and kept him in office. He could have named Axell Florent Hand, as Dragonstone's movers and shakers like Selyse, Salla, and Axell expected. Stannis actually lists other potential candidates, like Gilbert Farring, Lester Morrigen, and Andrew Estermont, but picks Davos because he trusts Davos above all others, despite their outranking Davos.

Stannis' whole "we will make new lords" speech seemed pretty hollow to me, since he was going to have to make new lords if he wanted to have any at all -- whether Davos was Hand or not.

He didn't have to. He could simply do what Robert did and kept the previous regime's counselors in place. One of Stannis' goals however is to punish the corrupt, regardless of birth, and promote the competant, regardless of birth. Plus, his statement about making new lords was specifically in response to Davos saying that he would not be considered acceptable to the established political upper class. Stannis is thus willing to completely reshuffle the Westerosi political landscape to ensure a capable government.

In contrast, note that Robert and Jon Arryn raised Littlefinger from virtually nothing to the Small Council when there was a lot of competition for that post, and he later became Lord Protector of the Vale;

LF was a lord, albeit a poor one. Plus, he only became Master of Coin because Lysa nagged Jon Arryn into giving him a customs job, where he distinguished himself. That Arryn was willing to promote him only shows that he was somewhat meritocratic as well, but doesn't detract from Stannis at all. Given that he was a lord and on the SC, his being appointed Lord of Harrenhall was not quite as meritocratic as one might think. LF only became Lord Protector of the Vale because he murdered Lysa. Cersei's court was not willing to confirm his position; they were willing to accept whatever internal arrangements the Vale made provided they kept the peace.

Cersei raised up Aurane Waters, a bastard;

...who had served Stannis before Blackwater. Cersei only raised him to power because he looked like Rhaegar. She's so committed to the importance of birth that she sees the Tyrells, who have ruled the Reach for 300 years and were a lordly house before that, as upjumped stewards.

bastards have served as Hand (Orys Barratheon, Bloodraven); Egg raised Dunk from Flea Bottom to be Lord Commander of the Kingsguard; and Aerys raised a Pyromancer to the position of Hand.

...proving that Stannis is as meritocratic as the two Aegons and two Aerys, if not more so. This doesn't detract from Stannis, it only confirms that he's one of the few lords of his generation to show meritocratic tendencies that were apparently more common in previous generations. But again, Stannis has a larger vision that even his distinguished predecessors, like Aegon, did not have.

[Jasta11]

Stannis serves a plot purpose. He is mid series filler.

Note how he does not feature in any of the long term prophecies, other than as a lie that has to be slain.

Come now folks. Stannis never had a chance.

And that makes him far more interesting than the two magical, prophecy-laden ''main'' characters if you ask me. I think it would be a great subversion of standard fantasy tropes if the Chosen One teenagers with good intentions end up being less useful and important in the grand scheme of things than the ruthless and experienced middle-aged dude.

I don't think he's going to ''win'' (whatever winning is), but I do think he'll do something very important in the history of Westeros before dying. I don't want the last of the Baratheon brothers go out on a whimper like the last two.

[aceluby]

I don't think such an end would be fitting. Do we really need another confirmation that Stannis isn't some prophesied epic hero? Only a handful of men in Westeros care about the prophecy anyway, and none of the pov-characters is among those, so such an end would have absolutely no impact. Or rather, it wouldn't make the coming of the Others scarier for anybody (aside from the Queen's men, who are relatively unimportant). As I said before, if this is supposed to be it, we could have had someone else saving the Wall.

First off, you have Mels POV which is completely unnecessary if the prophecy is meaningless. Secondly, there has been no confirmation that Stannis is not the epic hero, in-universe, and only hints that he's not to the readers. It would also not make sense that one of the Northern lords save the Wall with what is happening in the North, leaving pretty much nobody to save it except the guy that thinks its his main cause w/ a magic sword and sorceress to do it. You may not think it's 'fitting', but that doesn't mean there isn't a strong probability of its occurance.

[aceluby]

And that makes him far more interesting than the two magical, prophecy-laden ''main'' characters if you ask me. I think it would be a great subversion of standard fantasy tropes if the Chosen One teenagers with good intentions end up being less useful and important in the grand scheme of things than the ruthless and experienced middle-aged dude.

I don't think he's going to ''win'' (whatever winning is), but I do think he'll do something very important in the history of Westeros before dying. I don't want the last of the Baratheon brothers go out on a whimper like the last two.

You should read the farseer trilogy by Robin Hobb. GRRM is heavily influenced by her writing and story telling style.

[aceluby]

Doesn't it mean that Robb was already helping?

By sitting in the Riverlands while Stannis tried to take them all on his own? I don't know what you consider helping, but doing nothing while you're getting your ass kicked is typically not what I think of.

[Muggle]

If Stannis would of gotten that stick out of his ass and came when Ned summoned him to KL, He would be king atm

[leviathan800]

And why should we take the GNC seriously at all? Are the Northern Lords really so stupid as to make a permanent enemy of the South? And that too, with the Others coming, and the South having the only supply of dragonglass? No one in the South supports Northern independence, and sooner or later, someone will unite the region, whether it is Tommen, Aegon, or Dany. Forget Northern independence, none of those parties are even supportive of the Starks being in power, as Stannis is. The North may be protected by Winter for now, but at some point, the South will come for them, if the Others don't beat them to it.

And what happens when Davos shows up with Rickon?

And yet somehow, Stannis remains in the running, while people with more resources and better chances, like Renly, Robb, and Joffrey, are dead. Stannis knew his chances were slim from the start. He just didn't care. He's also been outnumbered in grim situations before, like the Seige of Storm's End and the Battle of Castle Black, and survived them.

No.

They don't have canons. If they did, castles would be largely obsolete.

...as opposed to...?

There are plenty of characters whose stories could be dismissed as filler. Take Robb for instance, who does little of value apart from die. Or Dany, whose story is mostly irrelevant to the Westerosi plotlines. But Stannis, on the other hand, will determine the future of the North one way or the other in the battle for Winterfell. Also, in all likelihood, his story will involve some kind of fight with the Others, who are the most important enemy in the series. Hardly filler.

He seems to feature in Patchface's prophecies.

Lannister strength is being wasted in the Riverlands, and the only commander they have on hand would be Daven Lannister. I'm not sure where he is. The bulk of the Crown's forces would be the Tyrells, and the only capable commander they have would be Randyll. However, their participation would probably be contingent upon Marg's surviving her trial. The Crown is only strong if its alliance holds, and it seems to be on the verge of breaking.

Don't forget Rolland Storm, the Bastard of Nightsong. He was in command of Dragonstone.

Yet, Stannis keeps Davos on as an advisor after the war instead of just rewarding him and sending him off. In contrast, Bronn was Tyrion's friend and bodyguard, but was never an advisor as Davos was to Stannis; he also did not receive lands until Tyrion's trial. Stannis values Davos for his counsel, not just as a hired thug like Bronn or the Cleganes. Further, Stannis' statements about "making new lords" and "to be lordly is to be false" as well as his emphasis on class-blind justice, suggest a deeper commitment to meritocracy than anything the Lannisters have shown.

No he hadn't. No one, not even Davos himself, expected that Davos would become Hand. Stannis could have let Alester Florent's treason slide and kept him in office. He could have named Axell Florent Hand, as Dragonstone's movers and shakers like Selyse, Salla, and Axell expected. Stannis actually lists other potential candidates, like Gilbert Farring, Lester Morrigen, and Andrew Estermont, but picks Davos because he trusts Davos above all others, despite their outranking Davos.

He didn't have to. He could simply do what Robert did and kept the previous regime's counselors in place. One of Stannis' goals however is to punish the corrupt, regardless of birth, and promote the competant, regardless of birth. Plus, his statement about making new lords was specifically in response to Davos saying that he would not be considered acceptable to the established political upper class. Stannis is thus willing to completely reshuffle the Westerosi political landscape to ensure a capable government.

LF was a lord, albeit a poor one. Plus, he only became Master of Coin because Lysa nagged Jon Arryn into giving him a customs job, where he distinguished himself. That Arryn was willing to promote him only shows that he was somewhat meritocratic as well, but doesn't detract from Stannis at all. Given that he was a lord and on the SC, his being appointed Lord of Harrenhall was not quite as meritocratic as one might think. LF only became Lord Protector of the Vale because he murdered Lysa. Cersei's court was not willing to confirm his position; they were willing to accept whatever internal arrangements the Vale made provided they kept the peace.

...who had served Stannis before Blackwater. Cersei only raised him to power because he looked like Rhaegar. She's so committed to the importance of birth that she sees the Tyrells, who have ruled the Reach for 300 years and were a lordly house before that, as upjumped stewards.

...proving that Stannis is as meritocratic as the two Aegons and two Aerys, if not more so. This doesn't detract from Stannis, it only confirms that he's one of the few lords of his generation to show meritocratic tendencies that were apparently more common in previous generations. But again, Stannis has a larger vision that even his distinguished predecessors, like Aegon, did not have.

BOOM! well said!

[Jasta11]

You should read the farseer trilogy by Robin Hobb. GRRM is heavily influenced by her writing and story telling style.

Does it also have a bevy of undead and a dwarf with attittude? :p

But yeah, someday I'm gonna have to stop re-reading the Count of Monte Cristo for the upteenth time and jump into something else. It's also a fantasy series that defies convention, I take it? I'm afraid of looking stuff up online because of spoilers.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

First off, you have Mels POV which is completely unnecessary if the prophecy is meaningless.

I didn't say it was meaningless. Only that it wouldn't surprise anyone if and Stannis would not be able to fight Others. And I admit that I forgot Mel, but she already seems to turn away from Stannis. So him dying would in no way be a surprising game-changer, not even remotely close to the impact the RW had for example.
The only cases in which character-deaths make sense, is when their impact is greater/better for the story, than the character could have made himself , this has been the case so far and it would not be the case with Stannis, at least not if he goes out the way you suggested.

Secondly, there has been no confirmation that Stannis is not the epic hero, in-universe, and only hints that he's not to the readers.

The only characters which consider him the "epic hero" are his wife, the Queen's men, and Mel. I don't see that his death would already be worth it because we would see the Queen and the fanatics despair and Mel find herself another hero. Stannis has more potential than that, it seems to me.

It would also not make sense that one of the Northern lords save the Wall with what is happening in the North, leaving pretty much nobody to save it except the guy that thinks its his main cause w/ a magic sword and sorceress to do it.

Well, the author makes us have this impression, so that it is convenient to present Stannis in his role of "the King who cared". My point is, if Martin wouldn't Stannis to be around a bit longer, he didn't have to make him as important as he did in SoS.
It would make a lot of sense for one of the Northern lords to save the Wall, because their land would be directly affected. Didn't the Umbers even lose some daughters (highborn!) to wildling raiders? I think that it wouldn'T be a stretch to assume that all major Northern houses had at least 1k men at arms each at their disposal after others left with Robb. Sending them South is not that much a matter of having them, but of supplying and gathering them in a relatively short time. Considering that Robb was in haste, there should be plenty of men left.

All Stannis has accomplished since BW, was to give Davos and Jon some character-development and save the Wall. He was not an ESSENTIAL plot-device to neither of those things. This means that he still has more to do, which is not ONLY dying to the others (for reasons above). There must be something else. But I don't know what.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

[...]

I admire your patience and agree with almost everything. I too don't believe in the "G"NC, because relying on Jon is absurd, and there is no way the North would prefer boy-kings to Stannis, imo. But aside from that, the North could very well be independent from the rest of Westeros, it has been like that for thousands of years before the Dragons came.

[Dark Flame]

Martin has indirectly confirmed that Stannis will win the civil war

see this interview

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=49161

And it is important that the individual books refer to the civil wars, but the series title reminds us constantly that the real issue lies in the North beyond the Wall.Stannis becomes one of the few characters fully to understand that, which is why in spite of everything he is a righteous man, and not just a version of Henry VII, Tiberius or Louis XI.

Why is GRRM thinking that anyone will compare Stannis to

Henry VII, the man who won The War of the Roses

or

Louis XI, who defeated his rebellious Nobels with help of a army of mercenaries

if Stannis loses the war.

[SkaggCannibal]

He doesn't stand a chance? He has a battle-hardened army of superloyals. Small yes, but the most experienced you can get. He stands a great chance of getting the full support of the North, which is already partly supporting him. He should be able to get the support of a small army of Wildlings who are still grateful he let them into the realm. All together that's a decent army. He has a woman on his side who can see the future. He has a daughter yet to be betrothed. He has the best Hand ever. He has the full backing of the Iron Bank, who are sending him an additional 20 000 sellswords. That is a second army! When White Harbour declares for him, he controls a pretty strong naval force. With chances of Aurane Waters rejoining his cause and the Redwyne Fleet fighting the Ironmen on the west-coast of Westeros, he will be the number one power in the Narrow Sea. But most importantly, he has right on his side. Maybe you think he doesn't stand a chance, but there is definetely still potential.

[DExit]

And why should we take the GNC seriously at all? Are the Northern Lords really so stupid as to make a permanent enemy of the South? And that too, with the Others coming, and the South having the only supply of dragonglass? No one in the South supports Northern independence, and sooner or later, someone will unite the region, whether it is Tommen, Aegon, or Dany. Forget Northern independence, none of those parties are even supportive of the Starks being in power, as Stannis is. The North may be protected by Winter for now, but at some point, the South will come for them, if the Others don't beat them to it.

And what happens when Davos shows up with Rickon?

And yet somehow, Stannis remains in the running, while people with more resources and better chances, like Renly, Robb, and Joffrey, are dead. Stannis knew his chances were slim from the start. He just didn't care. He's also been outnumbered in grim situations before, like the Seige of Storm's End and the Battle of Castle Black, and survived them.

No.

They don't have canons. If they did, castles would be largely obsolete.

...as opposed to...?

There are plenty of characters whose stories could be dismissed as filler. Take Robb for instance, who does little of value apart from die. Or Dany, whose story is mostly irrelevant to the Westerosi plotlines. But Stannis, on the other hand, will determine the future of the North one way or the other in the battle for Winterfell. Also, in all likelihood, his story will involve some kind of fight with the Others, who are the most important enemy in the series. Hardly filler.

He seems to feature in Patchface's prophecies.

Lannister strength is being wasted in the Riverlands, and the only commander they have on hand would be Daven Lannister. I'm not sure where he is. The bulk of the Crown's forces would be the Tyrells, and the only capable commander they have would be Randyll. However, their participation would probably be contingent upon Marg's surviving her trial. The Crown is only strong if its alliance holds, and it seems to be on the verge of breaking.

Don't forget Rolland Storm, the Bastard of Nightsong. He was in command of Dragonstone.

Yet, Stannis keeps Davos on as an advisor after the war instead of just rewarding him and sending him off. In contrast, Bronn was Tyrion's friend and bodyguard, but was never an advisor as Davos was to Stannis; he also did not receive lands until Tyrion's trial. Stannis values Davos for his counsel, not just as a hired thug like Bronn or the Cleganes. Further, Stannis' statements about "making new lords" and "to be lordly is to be false" as well as his emphasis on class-blind justice, suggest a deeper commitment to meritocracy than anything the Lannisters have shown.

No he hadn't. No one, not even Davos himself, expected that Davos would become Hand. Stannis could have let Alester Florent's treason slide and kept him in office. He could have named Axell Florent Hand, as Dragonstone's movers and shakers like Selyse, Salla, and Axell expected. Stannis actually lists other potential candidates, like Gilbert Farring, Lester Morrigen, and Andrew Estermont, but picks Davos because he trusts Davos above all others, despite their outranking Davos.

He didn't have to. He could simply do what Robert did and kept the previous regime's counselors in place. One of Stannis' goals however is to punish the corrupt, regardless of birth, and promote the competant, regardless of birth. Plus, his statement about making new lords was specifically in response to Davos saying that he would not be considered acceptable to the established political upper class. Stannis is thus willing to completely reshuffle the Westerosi political landscape to ensure a capable government.

LF was a lord, albeit a poor one. Plus, he only became Master of Coin because Lysa nagged Jon Arryn into giving him a customs job, where he distinguished himself. That Arryn was willing to promote him only shows that he was somewhat meritocratic as well, but doesn't detract from Stannis at all. Given that he was a lord and on the SC, his being appointed Lord of Harrenhall was not quite as meritocratic as one might think. LF only became Lord Protector of the Vale because he murdered Lysa. Cersei's court was not willing to confirm his position; they were willing to accept whatever internal arrangements the Vale made provided they kept the peace.

...who had served Stannis before Blackwater. Cersei only raised him to power because he looked like Rhaegar. She's so committed to the importance of birth that she sees the Tyrells, who have ruled the Reach for 300 years and were a lordly house before that, as upjumped stewards.

...proving that Stannis is as meritocratic as the two Aegons and two Aerys, if not more so. This doesn't detract from Stannis, it only confirms that he's one of the few lords of his generation to show meritocratic tendencies that were apparently more common in previous generations. But again, Stannis has a larger vision that even his distinguished predecessors, like Aegon, did not have.

You ser, are right :agree: :cheers: :cool4:

[Blutraven]

He doesn't stand a chance? He has a battle-hardened army of superloyals. Small yes, but the most experienced you can get. He stands a great chance of getting the full support of the North, which is already partly supporting him. He should be able to get the support of a small army of Wildlings who are still grateful he let them into the realm. All together that's a decent army. He has a woman on his side who can see the future. He has a daughter yet to be betrothed. He has the best Hand ever. He has the full backing of the Iron Bank, who are sending him an additional 20 000 sellswords. That is a second army! When White Harbour declares for him, he controls a pretty strong naval force. With chances of Aurane Waters rejoining his cause and the Redwyne Fleet fighting the Ironmen on the west-coast of Westeros, he will be the number one power in the Narrow Sea. But most importantly, he has right on his side. Maybe you think he doesn't stand a chance, but there is definetely still potential.

With the Iron Bank he Salla could potentially join him again, that would be two fleets on the important side of Westeros.

[Draco_Dracul]

He was screwed the minute Robert died without knowing he had no true born sons. There were avenues that Ned could have taken that would have kept the realm together, but they would almost all involve naming someone other than Stannis heir. Various plans to keep Joffery on the throne, the shows plan to put Renly on the throne, even forging the will to name himself king and giving the appropriate promises to Dorne and the Reach (which Ned would never do, but would have worked better than his actual plan) all have been more effective than trying to get Stannis on the Throne.

[Master Shake]

And why should we take the GNC seriously at all? Are the Northern Lords really so stupid as to make a permanent enemy of the South? And that too, with the Others coming, and the South having the only supply of dragonglass? No one in the South supports Northern independence, and sooner or later, someone will unite the region, whether it is Tommen, Aegon, or Dany. Forget Northern independence, none of those parties are even supportive of the Starks being in power, as Stannis is. The North may be protected by Winter for now, but at some point, the South will come for them, if the Others don't beat them to it.

And what happens when Davos shows up with Rickon?

And yet somehow, Stannis remains in the running, while people with more resources and better chances, like Renly, Robb, and Joffrey, are dead. Stannis knew his chances were slim from the start. He just didn't care. He's also been outnumbered in grim situations before, like the Seige of Storm's End and the Battle of Castle Black, and survived them.

No.

They don't have canons. If they did, castles would be largely obsolete.

...as opposed to...?

There are plenty of characters whose stories could be dismissed as filler. Take Robb for instance, who does little of value apart from die. Or Dany, whose story is mostly irrelevant to the Westerosi plotlines. But Stannis, on the other hand, will determine the future of the North one way or the other in the battle for Winterfell. Also, in all likelihood, his story will involve some kind of fight with the Others, who are the most important enemy in the series. Hardly filler.

He seems to feature in Patchface's prophecies.

Lannister strength is being wasted in the Riverlands, and the only commander they have on hand would be Daven Lannister. I'm not sure where he is. The bulk of the Crown's forces would be the Tyrells, and the only capable commander they have would be Randyll. However, their participation would probably be contingent upon Marg's surviving her trial. The Crown is only strong if its alliance holds, and it seems to be on the verge of breaking.

Don't forget Rolland Storm, the Bastard of Nightsong. He was in command of Dragonstone.

Yet, Stannis keeps Davos on as an advisor after the war instead of just rewarding him and sending him off. In contrast, Bronn was Tyrion's friend and bodyguard, but was never an advisor as Davos was to Stannis; he also did not receive lands until Tyrion's trial. Stannis values Davos for his counsel, not just as a hired thug like Bronn or the Cleganes. Further, Stannis' statements about "making new lords" and "to be lordly is to be false" as well as his emphasis on class-blind justice, suggest a deeper commitment to meritocracy than anything the Lannisters have shown.

No he hadn't. No one, not even Davos himself, expected that Davos would become Hand. Stannis could have let Alester Florent's treason slide and kept him in office. He could have named Axell Florent Hand, as Dragonstone's movers and shakers like Selyse, Salla, and Axell expected. Stannis actually lists other potential candidates, like Gilbert Farring, Lester Morrigen, and Andrew Estermont, but picks Davos because he trusts Davos above all others, despite their outranking Davos.

He didn't have to. He could simply do what Robert did and kept the previous regime's counselors in place. One of Stannis' goals however is to punish the corrupt, regardless of birth, and promote the competant, regardless of birth. Plus, his statement about making new lords was specifically in response to Davos saying that he would not be considered acceptable to the established political upper class. Stannis is thus willing to completely reshuffle the Westerosi political landscape to ensure a capable government.

LF was a lord, albeit a poor one. Plus, he only became Master of Coin because Lysa nagged Jon Arryn into giving him a customs job, where he distinguished himself. That Arryn was willing to promote him only shows that he was somewhat meritocratic as well, but doesn't detract from Stannis at all. Given that he was a lord and on the SC, his being appointed Lord of Harrenhall was not quite as meritocratic as one might think. LF only became Lord Protector of the Vale because he murdered Lysa. Cersei's court was not willing to confirm his position; they were willing to accept whatever internal arrangements the Vale made provided they kept the peace.

...who had served Stannis before Blackwater. Cersei only raised him to power because he looked like Rhaegar. She's so committed to the importance of birth that she sees the Tyrells, who have ruled the Reach for 300 years and were a lordly house before that, as upjumped stewards.

...proving that Stannis is as meritocratic as the two Aegons and two Aerys, if not more so. This doesn't detract from Stannis, it only confirms that he's one of the few lords of his generation to show meritocratic tendencies that were apparently more common in previous generations. But again, Stannis has a larger vision that even his distinguished predecessors, like Aegon, did not have.

Great post, Stannis is no filler.