Worst Romance in Westeros...

[Jon of the Dead]

I honestly don't understand the hate for the Dany Daario stuff. It seemed realistic to me. She's 16, its no surprise she is attracted to a smooth talking sellsword with a lot of swagger. Who should she be into? Jorah, Barristan, Xaro, Hizhdar, Quentyn?

I agree. Dany/Daario is annoying, but at least it isn't downright problematic like Dany/Drogo, where she was socially and psychologically manipulated into believing she was in love with her rapist. It's 50 shades of grey, dothraki version

At least the show decided to depict their relationship (at least the beginning) how it really was, crude rape, instead of that misleading "romatic" bullshit scene on the side of the stream in the books

[Lady Howell]

All of them, because romance is generally an awful thing that nobody in Westeros needs. Romantic love (ewwww) as a motivation is worse than greed, lust for power, killing people out of sadism, etc. Also, it's stupid. Decent people in Westeros don't concern themselves with "romance"; they decide who to fuck, marry and kill based on smart political reasons. The only good people in Westeros are those who understand and appreciate the fact that their duty to perform the regularly scheduled and officially approved fucking with an heir of a specific house is the only thing that keeps the country from falling apart. There are some irresponsible, despicable sluts out there who believe they have the "right" to decide where and how to use their genitals, and even justify it with the idea of something called "love", but the really decent people are those who lie back and think of Westeros.

This is one of the things I have learned from many wise posts on this forum. I was blind, but now I can see. :cool4:

I think I have found my soulmate...or maybe an ally.

[Newstar]

I agree. Dany/Daario is annoying, but at least it isn't downright problematic like Dany/Drogo, where she was socially and psychologically manipulated into believing she was in love with her rapist.

Don't you know that raping a girl until she cries out more from pleasure than from pain is the pinnacle of romance? :D It's so romantic when a guy hurts you repeatedly and ignores your obvious agony! So dreamy!

Don't even get me started on how erotic and loving it is when a guy shows up drunk in your bedroom, threatens to kill you and holds a dagger to your throat. My goodness! That's the sexiest thing I can imagine! Soooo sweet and romantic, am I right, ladies? :D HIs pressing the tip of his knife into your throat is just his clumsy way of expressing his affection! His threats to kill you and forcing you to do things under threat of death are more romantic than any love poem anyone could ever dream of, don't you know. Nothing is more romantic and lovely than a man threatening to kill you and then not doing so; that's some Love Actually shit right there, my friends, make no mistake.

[Alys Fiddlewielder]

Ramsay and Reek.

Haha sorry, nah seriously, um... well, there actually are no romances I truly despise.

But I feel dumb for not picking up on the fact that Shae was likely just using Tyrion for cash, especially since I used to like their romance when I was a sweet summer child. I also never got what was so great about Rhaegar and Lyanna, and was surprised to see it everywhere in the fanbase. I also can't see Dany and Daario working out for long... I guess it's possible, but to me it sort of feels like one of those teenage-girl things, or you know what I mean.

I actually kind of liked the weird little thing with Sandor and Sansa, but I saw it more as him wanting to protect this pure, innocent little thing that was such a contrast to his own violent, hate-filled world. (dat scene when she sings for him at the end of ACOK and dfhshgfd.) Maybe he was attracted to her, but honestly, I actually don't care that much when it comes to ASOIAF. As long as he doesn't molest her, I'm happy.

It's funny how everyone was grossed out by Theon and Asha getting all touchy-feely with each other before it was revealed they were siblings, but Theon had actually been really interested in her. Theon, who usually concentrates on tits and lady bits, was admiring this woman for her personality! I've also tried to ship Theon and Jeyne a little bit, but I dunno, they might be too different for each other (besides sharing the Ramsay Experience).

[Jon of the Dead]

Don't you know that raping a girl until she cries out more from pleasure than from pain is the pinnacle of romance? :D It's so romantic when a guy hurts you repeatedly and ignores your obvious agony! So dreamy!

Don't even get me started on how erotic and thrilling it is when a guy shows up drunk in your bedroom, threatens to kill you and holds a dagger to your throat. My goodness! That's the sexiest thing I can imagine! Soooo hot, am I right, ladies? :D

That's why hacks like Stephanie Meyer and whatsherface who wrote 50 shades thrive and prosper

[Newstar]

That's why hacks like Stephanie Meyer and whatsherface who wrote 50 shades thrive and prosper

Yeah, because we live in a culture that eroticizes and romanticizes abuse and misogyny. Thus 13-year-old girls wind up thinking it's so sweet when Edward cuts the brakes on Bella's car and places her under house arrest to "protect" her, instead of it considering it creepy and abusive. Most days, I'm hopeful that we seem to have evolved past the "He Hit Me And It Felt LIke A Kiss" view of things--Dany/Drogo-type romance novels where the hero rapes the heroine until she falls in love with him and starts to enjoy the rapes seem to be on the wane--but GRRM's view of romance--and the readers who eat it up with a spoon and think such things are so utterly romantic and sweet--makes me wonder. I've read ship manifestos for at least one ship in this series, and they sound a lot like rationalizations given by abused women: he only hurts her because he cares about her so much, he only says/does hurtful things because he doesn't know how to express his feelings, he had a horrible past/childhood, she's the only one who truly understands him, etc. etc.

[ARYa_Nym]

Don't you know that raping a girl until she cries out more from pleasure than from pain is the pinnacle of romance? :D It's so romantic when a guy hurts you repeatedly and ignores your obvious agony! So dreamy!

Don't even get me started on how erotic and loving it is when a guy shows up drunk in your bedroom, threatens to kill you and holds a dagger to your throat. My goodness! That's the sexiest thing I can imagine! Soooo sweet and romantic, am I right, ladies? :D HIs pressing the tip of his knife into your throat is just his clumsy way of expressing his affection! His threats to kill you and forcing you to do things under threat of death are more romantic than any love poem anyone could ever dream of, don't you know. Nothing is more romantic and lovely than a man threatening to kill you and then not doing so; that's some Love Actually shit right there, my friends, make no mistake.

Haha, you're killing me. Mte.

[Dolan Baratheon]

Sandor/Sansa

Rhaegar/Lyanna

Robb/Talisa(tv show)

[Newstar]

Haha, you're killing me. Mte.

That's why I proposed marriage to the person who robbed me at gunpoint. They threatened to kill me unless I handed over my wallet and then didn't when I did as they asked! Marriage material right there, ladies. Take notes.

[yolkboy]

Yeah, because we live in a culture that eroticizes and romanticizes abuse and misogyny. Thus 13-year-old girls wind up thinking it's so sweet when Edward cuts the brakes on Bella's car and places her under house arrest to "protect" her, instead of it considering it creepy and abusive. Most days, I'm hopeful that we seem to have evolved past the "He Hit Me And It Felt LIke A Kiss" view of things--Dany/Drogo-type romance novels where the hero rapes the heroine until she falls in love with him and starts to enjoy the rapes seem to be on the wane--but GRRM's view of romance--and the readers who eat it up with a spoon and think such things are so utterly romantic and sweet--makes me wonder. I've read ship manifestos for at least one ship in this series, and they sound a lot like rationalizations given by abused women: he only hurts her because he cares about her so much, he only says/does hurtful things because he doesn't know how to express his feelings, he had a horrible past/childhood, she's the only one who truly understands him, etc. etc.

Maybe people don't associate reading fiction with real life as you seem to.

[ARYa_Nym]

That's why I proposed marriage to the person who robbed me at gunpoint. They threatened to kill me unless I handed over my wallet and then didn't when I did as they asked! Marriage material right there, ladies. Take notes.

Agreed. Nothing is sexier than assault with a deadly weapon.

[Newstar]

Maybe people don't associate reading fiction with real life as you seem to.

Because fiction never reveals or feeds into troubling underlying cultural attitudes towards women by normalizing misogynistic attitudes or abusive behaviour. Oh, wait...

I'd like to live in a world where deliberately hurtful, intimidating, and physically/sexually abusive behaviour, towards women in particular, is not shown to be or suggested to be sexy or romantic, in fiction or otherwise, just as we no longer have any patience for positive depictions or presentations of child abuse, racism and homophobia, in fiction or otherwise. Call me crazy.

Agreed. Nothing is sexier than assault with a deadly weapon.

Unf. I'll be in my bunk, as they say...where hopefully someone will assault me with a deadly weapon and threaten to kill me. I can dream, anyway. *sigh*

[direwienerdog]

That's why I proposed marriage to the person who robbed me at gunpoint. They threatened to kill me unless I handed over my wallet and then didn't when I did as they asked! Marriage material right there, ladies. Take notes.

You are absolutely on fire! You're spot on with your analysis. Maybe George should ship Jon/Satin as he is much better at describing a joust than romance.

[Woman of War]

Besides Rhaegar and Lyannna I would say San/San but they're not actually together and they might never be. San/San has that typical woobify the male character. He's a bad boy who will be good for her. This is in so many romance novels I can't stand it. There's also that Beauty and the Beast trope which has been too much for me and was better done elsewhere. I would rather the female be the ugly one since the female is almost always the one who sees the beauty in the ugly male. Having said that I don't care for Jamie and Brienne regardless of the fact that the setup is better to me.

:agree: though I rather like Brienne and Jaime.

I do not at all mind Sandor's infatuation, it actually adds to his character. This is Beauty and Beast in a desastrous manner, more like Sting's "Moon Over Bourbon Street", I must love what I destroy and destroy the thing I love. And yet he may save her in the end and die for it. Or he may kill her. An interesting side storyline.

But what I really dislike is when some parts of fandom put it into the center of the books, as focus of their attention, it makes me wonder what they see in ASOIAF.

It's too close to conventional rape fantasy, good girls passing over the responsibility to the male in their sex dreams, so they can stay good girls. And it is too close to RL violence against women where abused women want to redeem the perpetrator by their love while endangering themselves. I like Martin playing with it but I thouroughly dislike people fangirling over it.

Nothing is more romantic and lovely than a man threatening to kill you and then not doing so

:rofl: :commie:

I'd like to live in a world where deliberately hurtful, intimidating, and physically/sexually abusive behaviour, towards women in particular, is not shown to be or suggested to be sexy or romantic, in fiction or otherwise, just as we no longer have any patience for positive depictions or presentations of child abuse, racism and homophobia, in fiction or otherwise. Call me crazy.

This

And I do not like that headstrong and competent Lyanna is suddenly turned into a lovestruck whelp by Rhaegar. But I do not believe for a moment that he really abducted her against her will. So I obviously have to accept that the promising clever knight turned into a moonstruck girl in puberty ;)

[Woman of War]

Dp, sorry

[SeanF]

Because fiction never reveals or feeds into troubling underlying cultural attitudes towards women by normalizing misogynistic attitudes or abusive behaviour. Oh, wait...

I'd like to live in a world where deliberately hurtful, intimidating, and physically/sexually abusive behaviour, towards women in particular, is not shown to be or suggested to be sexy or romantic, in fiction or otherwise, just as we no longer have any patience for positive depictions or presentations of child abuse, racism and homophobia, in fiction or otherwise. Call me crazy.

Unf. I'll be in my bunk, as they say...where hopefully someone will assault me with a deadly weapon and threaten to kill me. I can dream, anyway. *sigh*

So far as I can tell from this, and other forums, and reaction from friends and acquaintances, plenty of men and women do indeed find the relationship between Dany and Drogo to be romantic. There's a very good set of essays about it on the Rethinking Romance thread.

I certainly consider the story of their relationship to be credible and well-written.

[Lady Howell]

So far as I can tell from this, and other forums, and reaction from friends and acquaintances, plenty of men and women do indeed find the relationship between Dany and Drogo to be romantic. There's a very good set of essays about it on the Rethinking Romance thread.

I certainly consider the story of their relationship to be credible and well-written.

How so?

[SeanF]

How so?

I found Dany's chapters to be the most absorbing and gripping story in AGOT. After escaping from years of physical, emotional, (and maybe sexual) abuse at the hands of her brother, I could well see her coming to love Drogo.

[Daenyra]

Because fiction never reveals or feeds into troubling underlying cultural attitudes towards women by normalizing misogynistic attitudes or abusive behaviour. Oh, wait...

I'd like to live in a world where deliberately hurtful, intimidating, and physically/sexually abusive behaviour, towards women in particular, is not shown to be or suggested to be sexy or romantic, in fiction or otherwise, just as we no longer have any patience for positive depictions or presentations of child abuse, racism and homophobia, in fiction or otherwise. Call me crazy.

Unf. I'll be in my bunk, as they say...where hopefully someone will assault me with a deadly weapon and threaten to kill me. I can dream, anyway. *sigh*

Amen, Newstar!

I'll add the more covert forms of abuse- emotional and psychological. Then again some people need to live through what love and romance are not, sometimes repeatedly, to know the difference. Not judging anyone, speaking from experience. :stillsick: The environment of normalizing toxic relationships, unhealthy attachments and abuse relabeled as passion is not helping.

Worst "romance" for me is Dany and Drogo- sick, sick, sick! :ack:

[The Frosted King]

I read that stuff that Martin hates, and the sheer amount of Sansa/Sandor shipping almost makes me take Martins side on the matter.

It's disgusting and nauseating how prolific it is in the fandom, especially since one half of the pairing is a violent bloodthirsty bully.