In terms of atrocities committed, are dany and Stannis equal?

[E-Ro]

Nah, man they'll bring up Edric Storm, even though he didn't kill him, they make it sound like it is actually worst than Killing 163 innocent people.

Thats what they are referring to? Lets take a small look at why stannis was considering this.

”He is one baseborn boy, against all the boys of westeros, and all the girls as well. Against all the children that might ever be born in all the kingdoms of the world.”

“Edric—“ He started. “—Is one boy! He may be the best boy that ever drew breath and it would not matter. My duty is to the realm.” His hand swept across the painted table. “How many boys live in westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies… a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone… She speaks of signs and swears they point to me. I never asked for this, no more then I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her?”

Yeah, kill one to save the world seems like a hard choice, one that ANY leader would have to at least CONSIDER. Yet still, Stannis struggles with it and makes no decision at all untill he is sure of mels power. And even then he waits for davos to do something, prove mel wrong somehow, to take action. and is relieved when edric escapes, as evidenced by him not killing davos and pursuing edric.

[Lord Reaver]

Stannis is a man who goes too far in his pursuit of justice (burning people who are guilty, killing his own brother through magic).

Daenerys on the other hand goes way, wayyyyy to far in her pursuit of personal glory (oh mhysa!) and goals (I will take back my birthright!), including crucifying innocents, torturing innocents and condemning thousands of people to death through ridiculously stupid and irresponsible choices.

I'm way more inclined to forgive Stannis his transgressions than I am Daenerys.

[Señor de la Tormenta 2]

Thats what they are referring to? Lets take a small look at why stannis was considering this.

Yeah, kill one to save the world seems like a hard choice, one that ANY leader would have to at least CONSIDER. Yet still, Stannis struggles with it and makes no decision at all untill he is sure of mels power. And even then he waits for davos to do something, prove mel wrong somehow, to take action. and is relieved when edric escapes, as evidenced by him not killing davos and pursuing edric.

Kill her own baby to save her Latin lover, seams like a hard choice any Khalessi would have to consider.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Stannis is a man who goes too far in his pursuit of justice (burning people who are guilty, killing his own brother through magic).

Daenerys on the other hand goes way, wayyyyy to far in her pursuit of personal glory (oh mhysa!) and goals (I will take back my birthright!), including crucifying innocents, torturing innocents and condemning thousands of people to death through ridiculously stupid and irresponsible choices.

I'm way more inclined to forgive Stannis his transgressions than I am Daenerys.

Thats a good argument from a neutral PoV. It also answers the topic question.

[Petite Psycophant]

Stannis helps his people when he goes to the wall to save the NW, you know, the whole king who cared thing?

That was only after he got his ass kicked, try to murder his own kin so he could sit the IT, lost a great deal of his supporters and Davos pleaded with him to do so. To him it's just another path to IT. He thought he had to gain the IT so save the kingdom but since that got him nowhere he decided to save the kingdom so... he could sit on the Iron Throne. Stannis cares for nothing else.

Not to mention he could have worked out a deal with Renly and/or Robb but instead he chose to kill his brother. He really shows when he cares when the North wanted to secede but he denied them that option.

HE also does care about killing innocents, as he didnt just rush to kill edric the moment he finds out this can help him. your assertion here is

categorically false. He had no qualms killing the man protecting Edric though and would have gone through with killing the boy.

Staying and freeing the slaves wasnt in her best interests? It nets her tons of followers and a free army of 8 thousand unsullied. Yeah, im gonna say it was in her interests.

Not true, the advice was to leave for Westeros and leave the people she freed to their fate. How many times did they counsel her to turn them away, to reinstate slavery, etc. Everybody who counseled her said she's better off gathering ships and cross the narrow sea with the Unsullied.

Who cares if she is a young girl? This is like me saying "stannis atrocities are rather a bald man trying to do what needs to be done in a harsh world" It is irrelevant that she is young. The people Stannis burned would have been killed by any other lord in westeros just as fast.

Not true. There are people in the books talking about how sometimes it's most beneficial to pardon people since it'll be more like for them to bend the knee instead of fighting to the death or risk it all and maybe win or create even more casualty.

You mad?

When I read this I immediately thought of: brodude. You reek of one. Are you a brodude? Just curious.

[Petite Psycophant]

Daenerys murdered his own child. They both participated in a black sorcery spell and knew there were going to be consequences. Daenerys addmits she knew even in his own POV.

Difference is, Rhaego wasnt usurping anyone rights and rising against his older brother and rightful king.

Please tell me in which chapter this happens? Everything I read suggests she didn't know what the price was. So A direct quote along with the chapter and if possible page number would be helpful.

[Señor de la Tormenta 2]

Please tell me in which chapter this happens? Everything I read suggests she didn't know what the price was. So A direct quote along with the chapter and if possible page number would be helpful.

Daenerys IX. My book is in spanish.

[thepooperthatwaspromised]

As far as the Stannis killed Renly argument, which, admittedly is the thing i have a hard time giving him a free pass on ("There is small honor in tricks")...

Even if Stannis did let Mel kill Rennly with a shadowbaby shiv, Dany let Drogo kill Viserys by melting his head, so...

[yolkboy]

Please tell me in which chapter this happens? Everything I read suggests she didn't know what the price was. So A direct quote along with the chapter and if possible page number would be helpful.

“You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse.”

“No,” Mirri Maz Duur said. “That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price.”

Had she? Had she? If I look back I am lost.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

That was only after he got his ass kicked, try to murder his own kin so he could sit the IT, lost a great deal of his supporters and Davos pleaded with him to do so. To him it's just another path to IT. He thought he had to gain the IT so save the kingdom but since that got him nowhere he decided to save the kingdom so... he could sit on the Iron Throne. Stannis cares for nothing else.

So what do you think a person should do for the realm? Ride dragons? Free slaves even if they don't exist in Westeros? He opinion to save the nights watch was extremely noble even if it had ulterior motives. Every character has ulterior motives in their noble thought process. Dany freeing the slaves, a noble act yes but also that of cunning, she knew the slaves she freed will not leave her and will fuel her westerosi ambitions. Dany's whitewashing has to be a dreading site.

[Petite Psycophant]

Daenrys IX. My book is in spanish.

Please use the direct quote in Spanish so I'd know where to look at least.

[Petite Psycophant]

Thank you for saving me the trouble. lol

[thepooperthatwaspromised]

what's a brodude?

[Florina Laufeyson]

Stannis murdered his own brother, in my opinion that is unforgivable.

Oh ok. Stannis didnt witness his brother's death. Yet he reflects upon himself the folly of it all. The shadowbaby. Renly's blasted peach. Renly's bannermen. And so forth.

Dany witnessed her brother's death and felt squat. The one person who tried to what he could, despite his crippling weakness, to keep her fed all those years. She did nothing, said nothing, as Viserys got molten gold poured over his head. She never looks back thinking "wow i was a dick for not doing anything." Whereas Stannis does the opposite.

I think Dany's motives are more honorable. Astapor and Meereen happened because Dany wanted to get rid of slavery, a noble cause.

On the other hand, Stannis burns people to death for selfish reasons. He was ready to burn his own nephew, a child, so that he could be king. Until Davos talks him out of it. I don't see Dany even contemplate burning to death an innocent child just so she can be queen of Westeros.

The road to hell is oft paved with good intent.

<_<

[Señor de la Tormenta 2]

Please use the direct quote in Spanish so I'd know where to look at least.

Yolkboy got the quote, right under me.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Thank you for saving me the trouble. lol

so now you know that Dany was full aware of everything and still went ahead.

[Petite Psycophant]

what's a brodude?

Let me put it this way it's not a compliment.

[E-Ro]

That was only after he got his ass kicked, try to murder his own kin so he could sit the IT, lost a great deal of his supporters and Davos pleaded with him to do so. To him it's just another path to IT. He thought he had to gain the IT so save the kingdom but since that got him nowhere he decided to save the kingdom so... he could sit on the Iron Throne. Stannis cares for nothing else.

This is an oversimplification of things. Its true that at first he just goes for the throne. But that’s because he knows it’s right, the lannisters are wrong and he has to stop them by any means possible. When he talks with davos he has an epiphany and he realizes what is important, and what matters. What davos tells him clicks in his head and he gets it.

Not to mention he could have worked out a deal with Renly and/or Robb but instead he chose to kill his brother. He really shows when he cares when the North wanted to secede but he denied them that option.

He tried to work out a deal with renly, renly denied him though. He had little choice in the matter of killing renly, it was either bend the knee and show the world that the law means nothing(leading to a war of succession whenever a king dies.) or kill renly. As for letting the north secede, no monarch would have let the north go without a fight, it would tell the other lord paramounts that they can do the same without a fight. Any king would have to at least try to keep them in the fold.

categorically false. He had no qualms killing the man protecting Edric though and would have gone through with killing the boy.

What do you mean he had no qualms about killing the man defending edric? You mean cortnay? Cortnay was a lawbreaker and enemy. He sided with renly and lost. That’s pretty much the end of the story there.

Not true, the advice was to leave for Westeros and leave the people she freed to their fate. How many times did they counsel her to turn them away, to reinstate slavery, etc. Everybody who counseled her said she's better off gathering ships and cross the narrow sea with the Unsullied.

she does eventually cave on things to make her life easier. Like the fighting pits. She does some good sometimes, freeing the slaves was good. But she goes about it all wrong and it just leads to far more suffering then it should.

Not true. There are people in the books talking about how sometimes it's most beneficial to pardon people since it'll be more like for them to bend the knee instead of fighting to the death or risk it all and maybe win or create even more casualty.

. No one would spare smallfolk or high treason crimes for these reasons though. We see Stannis pardons lords after the Se incident. Yet he punishes the cannibals, and lord alester florent and mance. So he does pardon people.

When I read this I immediately thought of: brodude. You reek of one. Are you a brodude? Just curious.

Well, I don’t like to classify myself as such because I think it has negative connotations. But yeah, you could say that I am.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

what's a brodude?

A worthless person.

[E-Ro]

what's a brodude?

An insult nerds invented to insult people that like sports, drinking, girls, and acting like clowns from time to time.