In terms of atrocities committed, are dany and Stannis equal?

[E-Ro]

well, a comment in another thread got me thinking. Basically, at various points in the series Stannis and dany do some really messed up things. Stannis burns 5 men he considers criminals to death. Dany burns mmd to death, and has 163 people crucified. My question is, do you give either one of these characters a free pass on these actions but not the other? And if so, why? What makes either of their acts more acceptable then the others? Or, do you consider both of these characters actions as bad and you dont accept them but still like one or both of them anyway?

Me, I fall in to the second category. I love Stannis, dislike dany intensely. But, I dont think it was acceptable for Stannis to burn anyone. I see that action as being wrong. At the same time, I feel that dany burning mmd and crucifying the slavers was wrong.

Thoughts, trolls, angry remarks, clown responses, all are welcome. Just try to keep it civil.

[thepooperthatwaspromised]

fine, just poop all over my attempt at diplomacy :P

[E-Ro]

fine, just poop all over my attempt at diplomacy :P

hahaha, sorry brah brah. I am legit curious about this. It should get a few serious responses, even if it does turn into a battleground soon enough.

[Sansa_Stark]

*looks at Astapor*

Not even close.

Dany is 1000x worse.

I mean, it might not have been Dany's intention, but her stupidity and incompetence should be considered an atrocity itself.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

*looks at Astapor*

Not even close.

Dany is 1000x worse.

This should settle it.

[Boarsbane]

Stannis murdered his own brother, in my opinion that is unforgivable.

[E-Ro]

Stannis murdered his own brother, in my opinion that is unforgivable.

well, stepping back and looking at what happened between them objectively, I can honestly say I dont care about this. The two were at war, one of them was going to die. It just happened to be renly.

also, why is killing someone you are related to any worse then killing anyone?

[franko99]

*looks at Astapor*

Not even close.

Dany is 1000x worse.

I mean, it might not have been Dany's intention, but her stupidity and incompetence should be considered an atrocity itself.

This should settle it.

You also have to keep in mind Stannis knew every men he has burned, were criminals, Dany OTOH doesn't care about the individuals she crucified, all that matters for her is the number

[Sansa_Stark]

Dany also encourages and accepts slavery when it helps her.

[Hutch]

Both have done morally reprehensible things. Most likely all this thread will do is bring in fans from each side to degrade the conversation into a "battlefield" as you said.

Which I'm not against. Kings man all the way :)

Eta spelling

[Flig]

well, stepping back and looking at what happened between them objectively, I can honestly say I dont care about this. The two were at war, one of them was going to die. It just happened to be renly.

also, why is killing someone you are related to any worse then killing anyone?

It's the personalness(if that's a word) of it. To murder your own brother, someone you were raised with, someone you love, takes a lot more emotional disregard(I'm so good at making up phrases, right?) than it does to kill someone you've never met.

I find Dany's wrongdoings worse, simply because of the scale of them. And because I have a bias against the girl. I still think Stannis's actions are wrong and cruel, but I'm meh on him and he murdered far fewer.

[Queen of Whores]

You also have to keep in mind Stannis knew every men he has burned, were criminals, Dany OTOH doesn't care about the individuals she crucified, all that matters for her is the number

Yep, I find it very hard to believe that Stannis would ever burn someone he wasn't 100% sure committed a very serious act of wrongness.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

It's the personalness(if that's a word) of it. To murder your own brother, someone you were raised with, someone you love, takes a lot more emotional disregard(I'm so good at making up phrases, right?) than it does to kill someone you've never met.

He never gave the order to kill Renly. Stannis didn't even Knew that Mel was going birth Shadowbaby. IIRC

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Stannis burning people is probably the one thing that makes me not completely on board with him. I'm hoping eventually he wakes up and realizes what he's done. I wouldn't say I give him a "free pass" for burning people; rather, he has more positives in his defense, by my standards, than Dany does. I think he's more competent and, with some people skills, would make a superior ruler to Dany.

The people whom Stannis burns are ones, if I remember correctly, who would have faced execution anyway (treason, desertion, cannibalism, etc.), and burning was simply the means of execution. Their guilt was also not in question, or at least, Stannis thought he knew whom he was executing. Compare that with Dany's mass crucifixion of people whose individual guilt was never completely ascertained.

I also admire Stannis for walking the walk — he's out there freezing his ass off in the snow with his men, he's fighting in the battles he initiates, he's building alliances, he's doing something to earn the rulership. He had that epiphany, with Davos's help, that the crown is something that ultimately must be earned, something I don't think has dawned on Dany yet. And for as unbending as Stannis is alleged to be, he's actually coming across as adaptable and willing to listen to advice based on the merit of the adviser. If he were really that unbending, he'd have never listened to people like Jon or Davos.

It's the personalness(if that's a word) of it. To murder your own brother, someone you were raised with, someone you love, takes a lot more emotional disregard(I'm so good at making up phrases, right?) than it does to kill someone you've never met.

It's funny you say this, because even though Stannis is culpable in Renly's death, he didn't witness it firsthand or really even completely understand his role in it. You know who was actually there when their brother was brutally killed and did nothing to stop it? Dany. Sure, Viserys threatened her life. And Renly did ... what ... to Stannis? Oh right.

And as much damage as has been caused by the War of the Five Kings, Stannis has yet to be responsible for the literal obliteration of an entire city, so Dany has that in her column as well.

[Flig]

He never gave the order to kill Renly. Stannis didn't even Knew that Mel was going birth Shadowbaby. IIRC

I hear that a lot. I always call bullshit on it. We never see Stannis implicitly finding out about what Mel's plans are, but that doesn't mean he wasn't fully aware of them. I don't think Stannis is the kind of man to do something without knowing exactly what the plan is.

[Boarsbane]

They were at war but it wasn't like Stannis slew him in the heat of battle, be birthed an abomination and murdered his own blood. On top of that Stannis instigated the conflict by besieging Storm's End, knowing he had no chance against his brother in the field. I don't know if he was delusional enough to think Renly would lay down his crown, but it seems unlikely he would believe that so in that case it would mean he had been planning his brother's murder before he even arrived at Storm's End.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

I hear that a lot. I always call bullshit on it. We never see Stannis implicitly finding out about what Mel's plans are, but that doesn't mean he wasn't fully aware of them. I don't think Stannis is the kind of man to do something without knowing exactly what the plan is.

He went there on the hope that a Parley would be successful.

[E-Ro]

I'm hoping eventually he wakes up and realizes what he's done. I wouldn't say I give him a "free pass" for burning people; rather, he has more positives in his defense, by my standards, than Dany does. I think he's more competent and, with some people skills, would make a superior ruler to Dany.

The people whom Stannis burns are ones, if I remember correctly, who would have faced execution anyway (treason, desertion, cannibalism, etc.), and burning was simply the means of execution. Their guilt was also not in question, or at least, Stannis thought he knew whom he was executing. Compare that with Dany's mass crucifixion of people whose individual guilt was never completely ascertained.

I also admire Stannis for walking the walk — he's out there freezing his ass off in the snow with his men, he's fighting in the battles he initiates, he's building alliances, he's doing something to earn the rulership. He had that epiphany, with Davos's help, that the crown is something that ultimately must be earned, something I don't think has dawned on Dany yet. And for as unbending as Stannis is alleged to be, he's actually coming across as adaptable and willing to listen to advice based on the merit of the adviser. If he were really that unbending, he'd have never listened to people like Jon or Davos.

And as much damage as has been caused by the War of the Five Kings, Stannis has yet to be responsible for the literal obliteration of an entire city, so Dany has that in her column as well.

I agree with this.

They were at war but it wasn't like Stannis slew him in the heat of battle, be birthed an abomination and murdered his own blood. On top of that Stannis instigated the conflict by besieging Storm's End, knowing he had no chance against his brother in the field. I don't know if he was delusional enough to think Renly would lay down his crown, but it seems unlikely he would believe that so in that case it would mean he had been planning his brother's murder before he even arrived at Storm's End.

Mel told him he would win a great victory if he went to SE. It was not premeditated that he would kill renly. Also, why does it matter that renly wasn't killed on a battlefield?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Mel told him he would win a great victory if he went to SE. It was not premeditated that he would kill renly. Also, why does it matter that renly wasn't killed on a battlefield?

Stannis often gets criticized for fighting dirty because Renly was attacked the night before the agreed-upon time of battle. You know who else pulled this trick on a far larger scale (read: killing substantially more people than just the one)?

Dany, fighting Yunkai.

[E-Ro]

Stannis often gets criticized for fighting dirty because Renly was attacked the night before the agreed-upon time of battle. You know who else pulled this trick on a far larger scale (read: killing substantially more people than just the one)?

Dany, fighting Yunkai.

:laugh: yeah, that's a great point. I didn't even consider it in those terms.