The sad tale of Janos Slynt; Westerosi elitism at its finest.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Yeah, I just re-read all of this, and every time Slynt speaks he comes off as a snarky bastard with an arrogant and negative attitude to me.

You do him a disservice. He's not always arrogant, he can turn into a champion ass-kisser in a heartbeat, when the need arises. OK, his finesse is nonexistent, but his enthusiasm is to be commended.

[Hutch]

OK, his finesse is nonexistent, but his enthusiasm is to be commended.

Oddly enough I've heard those exact words from a couple of my ex girlfriends.

[Buckthorn]

The man has friends at court I say!

[Shadrich]

He was definitely treated as worse and oppressed by Tyrion and Tywin, and I think Tyrion did brake the guest law. But then again, Lannisters treat everyone as minor to them. Also if Ned paid more than LF (which he couldn't, obviously), I think Slynt would have swayed on to Ned's side. It was not honourable to betray someone like that.

But when he goes to the wall, he was being the "bully" I think; by treating Jon Snow worse, on the account of Jon being a bastard and a son of a traitor, and was acting as he was better than Jon.

[Dany Girl]

Did Lord Janos eat of Tyrions bread and salt? If so, then in the Hands own solar, Lord Janos must be a guest. Tyrion had him captured by force, and we've still to establish if Janos had commited a crime by law, since sadly if royalty order its all legal. In fact Tyrion even tells Littlefinger that he sends Janos to the Wall because he doesnt need him.

Small wonder Tywin was a-okay with Red Wedding, Tyrion had already butchered guest right and set a disgusting precedent

Stannis isnt infallible.

Tower of the Hand is part of the Castle. Just as the guards barrack are part. Therefore Janos is not a guest.

Also, therefore arresting Ned breached guest rights, yet no one objected based on that. Beating Sansa breaks guest rights as well. As I said, Stannis broke them too. Arresting someone within your house does not break guest rights. Guest rights means you don't kill or attack a guest. If you live in the castle, even a different tower, especially when they're your employee, does not violate guest rights! Employees are not guests!

[Hutch]

The man has friends at court I say!

That's the rumor.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qUPaigOxAi8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqUPaigOxAi8

(My apologies for all the links. Started the

Holiday season early, and they seem appropriate.)

[Iona]

Tower of the Hand is part of the Castle. Just as the guards barrack are part. Therefore Janos is not a guest.

Also, therefore arresting Ned breached guest rights, yet no one objected based on that. Beating Sansa breaks guest rights as well. As I said, Stannis broke them too. Arresting someone within your house does not break guest rights. Guest rights means you don't kill or attack a guest. If you live in the castle, even a different tower, especially when they're your employee, does not violate guest rights! Employees are not guests!

I'm under the impression that the Gold Cloaks do not reside in the Red Keep, but in the city, close to one of the gates I think.

Do we know if Slynt was invited to meet Tyrion on- or off-duty? I always got the feeling that it was a private event instead of a work-related lunch meeting.

[Light a wight tonight]

The man has friends at court I say!

Important friends!

[Shadrich]

Tower of the Hand is part of the Castle. Just as the guards barrack are part. Therefore Janos is not a guest.

Also, therefore arresting Ned breached guest rights, yet no one objected based on that. Beating Sansa breaks guest rights as well. As I said, Stannis broke them too. Arresting someone within your house does not break guest rights. Guest rights means you don't kill or attack a guest. If you live in the castle, even a different tower, especially when they're your employee, does not violate guest rights! Employees are not guests!

Janos was most likely off-duty, when he was feasting with Tyrion. Tyrion offered him food (bread and salt), and Janos was Tyrion's guest.

Tyrion then tricked him then, and without any trial or any way for Slynt to defend, Tyrion using his title of Hand of the King, shipped him to the wall, against Slynt's will.

Tyrion had the authority to relieve Slynt off the title of the Commander of the city watch. That would not be breaking the guest right. Forcing him to take the black was.

[Dany Girl]

I'm under the impression that the Gold Cloaks do not reside in the Red Keep, but in the city, close to one of the gates I think.

Do we know if Slynt was invited to meet Tyrion on- or off-duty? I always got the feeling that it was a private event instead of a work-related lunch meeting.

Either way, it was not breaking guest rights to fire someone and banish them to the wall. As acting Hand Tyrion was well within his rights. Janos was an employee. Lord Commander of the Gold Cloaks, he's always "on duty" just as the members of the Night's Watch are always on duty. Especially when meeting with the acting Hand. That's clearly a work related meeting.

[Dany Girl]

Janos was most likely off-duty, when he was feasting with Tyrion. Tyrion offered him food (bread and salt), and Janos was Tyrion's guest.

Tyrion then tricked him then, and without any trial or any way for Slynt to defend, Tyrion using his title of Hand of the King, shipped him to the wall, against Slynt's will.

Tyrion had the authority to relieve Slynt off the title of the Commander of the city watch. That would not be breaking the guest right. Forcing him to take the black was.

Hand of the King speaks with the voice of the King, the King has the right to banish anyone to the wall, therefore, so can the Hand. Even Ned banishes people to the Wall, Jaquen and company. The King, and the Hand do have that right. This is a monarchy, not a democracy, no one has "rights".

You can argue it was wrong, but not that it was out of his right to do so. It also was not a violation of guest rights as Janos was not harmed. Guest rights means you don't hurt or kill your guest (which I don't think applies to employees) not that you can't arrest them or send them to the wall if you have jurisdiction to do so, which Tyrion had.

[Shadrich]

Hand of the King speaks with the voice of the King, the King has the right to banish anyone to the wall, therefore, so can the Hand. Even Ned banishes people to the Wall, Jaquen and company. The King, and the Hand do have that right. This is a monarchy, not a democracy, no one has "rights".

You can argue it was wrong, but not that it was out of his right to do so. It also was not a violation of guest rights as Janos was not harmed. Guest rights means you don't hurt or kill your guest (which I don't think applies to employees) not that you can't arrest them or send them to the wall if you have jurisdiction to do so, which Tyrion had.

Yeah, I agree: Tyrion did have the right to ship Janos off to the wall, no matter the reason.

But I think he was a guest - and I think he was harmed, when he was forced to join the watch.

[Hajk]

To me, even if he had some sort of justification in his mind (and this is allowing that he acted on honor and not due to bribes as almost all the indications seem to indicate) his zealous pro-crown attitude is hard to defend post baby killing. Using the same logic of not considering high or low born people any different, I do not see why this makes him any better than the likes of Gregor or Lorch for killing the Targaryen children.

[Dany Girl]

Yeah, I agree: Tyrion did have the right to ship Janos off to the wall, no matter the reason.

But I think he was a guest - and I think he was harmed, when he was forced to join the watch.

I disagree, I don't think an employee is a guest, especially LC of the GC, that's a prestigious position, and if a King or Hand couldn't remove him due to "guest rights," well, that seems wrong. LC's don't just get let go, there is usually a major reason to do so (distrust of the main person responsible for the safety of the city is a big deal) so you don't just let them go back to their old life. They'd then be a threat to the safety of the city since they know the patters of the watch and likely have allies within the ranks. You can't just fire them.

Also, sending him to the wall didn't harm him. Lipping off to the LC of the NW is what harmed him ;)

[Bronn Urgandy]

You do him a disservice. He's not always arrogant, he can turn into a champion ass-kisser in a heartbeat, when the need arises. OK, his finesse is nonexistent, but his enthusiasm is to be commended.

See! Janos Slynt is not merely a 2 dimensional character.

Tower of the Hand is part of the Castle. Just as the guards barrack are part. Therefore Janos is not a guest.

Also, therefore arresting Ned breached guest rights, yet no one objected based on that. Beating Sansa breaks guest rights as well. As I said, Stannis broke them too. Arresting someone within your house does not break guest rights. Guest rights means you don't kill or attack a guest. If you live in the castle, even a different tower, especially when they're your employee, does not violate guest rights! Employees are not guests!

I don't get this, you mean because their place of work happens to be the same building there is no guest right? But when a man invites another man into his accomodation, i.e the Hand's solar, under the pretense of a friendly meeting, gives him food and drink and then has the man accosted after getting him innebriated thats okay? The other acts aren't breaking guest right, because bread and salt havent been consumed and all that.

Either way, it was not breaking guest rights to fire someone and banish them to the wall. As acting Hand Tyrion was well within his rights. Janos was an employee. Lord Commander of the Gold Cloaks, he's always "on duty" just as the members of the Night's Watch are always on duty. Especially when meeting with the acting Hand. That's clearly a work related meeting.

Hand of the King speaks with the voice of the King, the King has the right to banish anyone to the wall, therefore, so can the Hand. Even Ned banishes people to the Wall, Jaquen and company. The King, and the Hand do have that right. This is a monarchy, not a democracy, no one has "rights".

You can argue it was wrong, but not that it was out of his right to do so. It also was not a violation of guest rights as Janos was not harmed. Guest rights means you don't hurt or kill your guest (which I don't think applies to employees) not that you can't arrest them or send them to the wall if you have jurisdiction to do so, which Tyrion had.

So if the Freys had merely captured Robb Stark at the wedding and charged him with treason, offering him a choice of death or the wall, would that have been alright? Guest right surely must apply to leaving your guest entirely unmolested for that one night, otherwise no one would trust anyone.

To me, even if he had some sort of justification in his mind (and this is allowing that he acted on honor and not due to bribes as almost all the indications seem to indicate) his zealous pro-crown attitude is hard to defend post baby killing. Using the same logic of not considering high or low born people any different, I do not see why this makes him any better than the likes of Gregor or Lorch for killing the Targaryen children.

He's not better than them for that, at all, apart from that Slynt seems to feel the need to justify it and seperate himself emotionally, much like the Hound does "its not my place to question Princes". Whereas Clegane and Lorch are just animals. On the other hand, Clegane, Lorch and the Hound were allowed to contine with their lives, whereas Slynt was punished. Favouritism there?

I disagree, I don't think an employee is a guest, especially LC of the GC, that's a prestigious position, and if a King or Hand couldn't remove him due to "guest rights," well, that seems wrong. LC's don't just get let go, there is usually a major reason to do so (distrust of the main person responsible for the safety of the city is a big deal) so you don't just let them go back to their old life. They'd then be a threat to the safety of the city since they know the patters of the watch and likely have allies within the ranks. You can't just fire them.

Also, sending him to the wall didn't harm him. Lipping off to the LC of the NW is what harmed him ;)

If Tyrion had burst in on Slynt like he did with Pycelle, that would have been fine, my issue is with the manner with which he was accosted, seems to me he broke guest right. Why I ask? Because guest right was invented so that all the high-born toffs could feel safe round each others houses, and Slynt was too low born for it to apply to him. More bias.

[Wise Fool]

Like most under the corrupt rule of King Bob, Janos was himself corrupt and honor is not exactly the first thing, or really even one of the things, in his mind. I mean, child murder. Murder of innocent civilians. The gold cloaks themselves were notorious when it comes to graft. Janos picked the unethical, evil souls over anyone competent or honorable - like his recommendation to Tyrion as replacement Commander. And at the Wall he continued to associate with the real assholes, gathering cronies and henchmen and behaving like a big, spoiled bully. He could have survived if only he'd been honorable enough to follow orders, but he chose to be an insubordinate criminal douchebag. Which is why everyone likes "Edd, fetch me a block" so much. The guy had it coming.

So the OP, yeah, using flowery propaganda rhetoric when talking about the right honorable saint-and-savior Slynt doesn't really persuade, if it was meant to persuade, but it does troll, if it was meant to troll.

[KingOfTheDirewolves]

Please, please tell me you're kidding about this

[Mad Monkey]

See! Janos Slynt is not merely a 2 dimensional character.

It seems to be that Lord Janos has exactly two dimensions -- swaggering bully and ass-kisser.

And of course he would be working with Lord Jon Arryn to try to bring Janos down, kind of convenient, don't you think? They say Jon Arryns breath smelled of cheese, probably had something to do with the lies he tells festering on his tongue.

You're reading too much into this. Based on the descriptions we have of Arryn, he was of the highest moral character as well. Ned Stark's honorable behavior came mostly from Arryn, who raised him. And Stannis had no real choice but to work with him because Jon Arryn was the King's Hand and -- practically speaking -- the ruler of Westeros. Stannis would have had to work with him because Arryn was effectively Stannis's boss (as well as Janos's boss, actually).

Lord Janos has never been anything but loyal to the crown, this was re-enforced when he betrayed Eddard Stark to stick with the boy he believed to be the fruit of Robert Baratheon's loins, and the rightful King of Westeros

He was quite eager to siphon off the Crown's money at his liberty.

He's not better than them for that, at all, apart from that Slynt seems to feel the need to justify it and seperate himself emotionally, much like the Hound does "its not my place to question Princes". Whereas Clegane and Lorch are just animals. On the other hand, Clegane, Lorch and the Hound were allowed to contine with their lives, whereas Slynt was punished. Favouritism there?

Favoritism, maybe, but note that all of these men are now dead or as good as. Murder cannot be hid long and all that.

[CassBlackfyre]

best troll thread i've seen so far +1

[Gort]

Jon chopping off Janos' head and Stannis giving him "the nod" to do so is one of my favorite moments in the series.

This x200. "About bloody time!" was my thought when I read that. Loved the nod by Stannis afterwards. I suppose this topic does show that there'll always be someone who'll defend the most spineless and treacherous of characters.