Augustus Caesar Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Seven, Brienne thought again, despairing. She had no chance against seven, she knew. No chance, and no choice. She stepped out into the rain, Oathkeeper in hand.Brienne is the finest example of what it means to be a true Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMR Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Sandor does kill innocent people though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneorobertsbastards Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Sandor does kill innocent people though....Rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tyrion Lannister! Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Seven, Brienne thought again, despairing. She had no chance against seven, she knew. No chance, and no choice. She stepped out into the rain, Oathkeeper in hand.Brienne is the finest example of what it means to be a true Knightyeah brienne is definately in the "true night" catagory. along with people like davos, saving edric from being burned when he he knew it was treason and could mean his head being chopped off is a pretty brave thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMR Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Rubbish. He killed that little boy. And I am sure he has killed many before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneorobertsbastards Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Micah? Many don't know this but Micah was a drug mule. Sandor detests the drug trade and is in fact working to bring down the cartel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 He killed that little boy. And I am sure he has killed many before. All of the Royal Family told that the boy attacked the boy heir, though.Why would have Sandor stopped to discuss the assumption?But Sandor was definitely unknightly by not being able to overcome his fear, and fight near the flames.I'm not saying he is less of a good (or bad) person or less valiant for it.But that's a public act, in front of a capital city, of brake of knightly values, deserting in front of the enemy.That's why nobody in Westeros thinks of him as a knight's example. Micah? Many don't know this but Micah was a drug mule. Sandor detests the drug trade and is in fact working to bring down the cartel. But this is trolling, and without too much style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMR Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Lol, Micah was indeed a drug mule. It doesn't matter if the boy attacked the heir or not, Sandor killed a weak little boy. Not your typical knightly chivalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneorobertsbastards Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 No, actually I'm not trolling. I realize that his murder of Micah was an indefensible act, I really can't justify it. If you'll read my earlier post though, the point is I don't think those acts need to be justified, as he doesn't claim to be a "true knight" or a knight at all for that matter. If I were to bring up the morality of Ned Stark decapitating a man that was in a deserter from the NW but in fact mad with fear, and a true story to tell, I would receive an influx of hate. Ned acts the part of the honorable knight and bases his whole worth on his honor to the woe of his entire house. But I digress...The point remains that I explained my personal view of the character of the Hound and encompassed all his flaws within a relatively short explanation, making sure to mention that I realize he has "done some rotten things", therefore I felt the mention of one specific act as a rebuttal to my entire point was worthy of such a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duranaparthur Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Which is arguably the point; Sandor is perhaps the most honest and "honorable" character on the Lannister's side until after Blackwater, what with his absolute truthfulness, personal courage, and compassion for someone in need of protection. He's the closest thing the Lannisters have to a "true knight."And the Lannisters still use him as an attack dog.The one killing we have absolute testimony for of an innocent is Micah, but there's enough gray area there in terms of the circumstances to absolve Sandor of some blame. But he's almost certainly murdered some others on their orders, even though he's got better standards and courage than Trant and even the golden boys of the new group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pellinore Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 On this subject, Sandor Clegane was quoted as saying: "Don't call me Ser!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 No, actually I'm not trolling. I realize that his murder of Micah was an indefensible act, I really can't justify it. If you'll read my earlier post though, the point is I don't think those acts need to be justified, as he doesn't claim to be a "true knight" or a knight at all for that matter. If I were to bring up the morality of Ned Stark decapitating a man that was in a deserter from the NW but in fact mad with fear, and a true story to tell, I would receive an influx of hate. Ned acts the part of the honorable knight and bases his whole worth on his honor to the woe of his entire house. But I digress...The point remains that I explained my personal view of the character of the Hound and encompassed all his flaws within a relatively short explanation, making sure to mention that I realize he has "done some rotten things", therefore I felt the mention of one specific act as a rebuttal to my entire point was worthy of such a response. Ned does not enjoy it. Sandor laughed about Mycah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneorobertsbastards Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Again, like I said in the post you quoted, I acknowledge this is an indefensible act. It is included in the quote. Twice now, I've acknowledged it. I also explained why I don't think justification in necessary. So I'm not really understanding why the dead horse is still being kicked....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 No, actually I'm not trolling. I realize that his murder of Micah was an indefensible act, I really can't justify it. If you'll read my earlier post though, the point is I don't think those acts need to be justified, as he doesn't claim to be a "true knight" or a knight at all for that matter. If I were to bring up the morality of Ned Stark decapitating a man that was in a deserter from the NW but in fact mad with fear, and a true story to tell, I would receive an influx of hate. Ned acts the part of the honorable knight and bases his whole worth on his honor to the woe of his entire house. But I digress...The point remains that I explained my personal view of the character of the Hound and encompassed all his flaws within a relatively short explanation, making sure to mention that I realize he has "done some rotten things", therefore I felt the mention of one specific act as a rebuttal to my entire point was worthy of such a response. Well, sorry for the accusation in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneorobertsbastards Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMR Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am pretty sure Sandor did not have any remorse for anyone he killed. I think Sansa and Arya made him realise that he is on the wrong path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneorobertsbastards Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am pretty sure Sandor did not have any remorse for anyone he killed. I think Sansa and Arya made him realise that he is on the wrong path.I would have to agree with this. Up until he meets Sansa, he is still very much playing the part of "I kill for fun". In truth I think it's the only thing he believes himself capable of and he relies on it to identify himself, to himself. It's a self preservation method, "if I don't care, they can't hurt me" type thing. Hence his drinking, I think he drinks to forget what he feels. Then Sansa comes along and he starts to wonder what it would be like to be admired by someone he admires, and we see a change. The last time we see him, he's sobbing, begging Arya to kill him. That's not what a true hardened killer would do. Gregor's (potential) last breath was spent crushing a man's head. Sandor shows remorse, but not for the kindness he shows Sansa. He reflects that he should have rated her and killed her, he wishes he could be that monster that he tried to believe himself to be because allowing himself to feel is too painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 No, actually I'm not trolling. I realize that his murder of Micah was an indefensible act, I really can't justify it. If you'll read my earlier post though, the point is I don't think those acts need to be justified, as he doesn't claim to be a "true knight" or a knight at all for that matter. If I were to bring up the morality of Ned Stark decapitating a man that was in a deserter from the NW but in fact mad with fear, and a true story to tell, I would receive an influx of hate. Ned acts the part of the honorable knight and bases his whole worth on his honor to the woe of his entire house. But I digress...The point remains that I explained my personal view of the character of the Hound and encompassed all his flaws within a relatively short explanation, making sure to mention that I realize he has "done some rotten things", therefore I felt the mention of one specific act as a rebuttal to my entire point was worthy of such a response. your really comparing Ned killing a deserter to Sandor killing a child, lol and here I thought I heard everything, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneorobertsbastards Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 My point in making that comparison is that there are some characters that are forgiven by default of any questionable act simply because they're viewed as "honorable". You could argue that essentially what Ned did was no different than what Sandor did, he followed orders. He didn't know the circumstances of the man's "desertion", all that mattered to him was the law and he took it as unquestionable. I would imagine someone like Sandor would feel the same way about an order given to him by the queen. So is it so different? Ned himself said that the man that judges should be the man to swing the sword...did he give him a fair chance, you think? Or was he immediately deemed guilty by Ned simply because of the circumstance? Granted, Ned didn't laugh. I'll give you that.ETA: I think somehow everyone is missing my point: I am not excusing or justifying what Sandor did. The main reason I responded to the "lol" regarding my post is because of the bias I see in favor of Ned. Tywin Lannister didn't shit gold, but apparently Ned did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 To the op. The knights who were standing o/s the room were doing their duty. It might not seem right at first glance to let the king marital rape away. (not written lightly) However given the vows they have taken and the order they are placed in this is the norm. That is why when one takes a vow alot of forethought has to be put into it. For instance is this king worth devoting my life to. are his causes just. will he stand the test of time. Do we have the same poltical beliefs. or moral understandings. When Jaime took his vows he was young, some of these before mentioned reasonings could have eluded him. However once you say the vows you are committed, if you want outy then leave. harsh but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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