was the murder of Aegon and Rhaenys truly an evil deed?

[Red Tiger]

What kings waiting in the wings did the Targaryens have after the Blackfyres were gone? I can't recall.

I mean there's always some type of rebellion, someone who wants more power, someone who starts to trouble that leads to a war. Almost every generation ofthe Targ dynasty dealt with some sort of calamity. The Faith Militant, the Blackfyres, The Dance of Dragons, War of the NInepenny Kings, the Tragedy of Summerhall.

There were plenty of ways to get rid of the threat of Aegon and Rhaenys that did not involve killing them.

[Lion of the West]

I mean there's always some type of rebellion, someone who wants more power, someone who starts to trouble that leads to a war. Almost every generation ofthe Targ dynasty dealt with some sort of calamity. The Faith Militant, the Blackfyres, The Dance of Dragons, War of the NInepenny Kings, the Tragedy of Summerhall.

There were plenty of ways to get rid of the threat of Aegon and Rhaenys that did not involve killing them.

The first one was ended with the permanent dismantle of the ability to oppose the Targaryens, the War of Ninepenny Kings was part of the Blackfyre Rebellions which ended with the destruction of the Blackfyre line and finally the Dance of the Dragons ended because if I recall one of the lines which fought against the throne ended. I'm seeing a trend here.

And the ways to get rid of Aegon and Rhaenys are?

[Red Tiger]

The first one was ended with the permanent dismantle of the ability to oppose the Targaryens, the War of Ninepenny Kings was part of the Blackfyre Rebellions which ended with the destruction of the Blackfyre line and finally the Dance of the Dragons ended because if I recall one of the lines which fought against the throne ended. I'm seeing a trend here.

And the ways to get rid of Aegon and Rhaenys are?

Im sorry but what can two kids without armies, money and a name that's been attainted do? ONly reason Dany's stll alive is because of those dragons.

Wardship in the North, The Watch, Silent Sisters.

And the Faith Militant was beaten through diplomacy.

[Lion of the West]

Im sorry but what can two kids without armies, money and a name that's been attainted do? ONly reason Dany's stll alive is because of those dragons.

Wardship in the North, The Watch, Silent Sisters.

And the Faith Militant was beaten through diplomacy.

The war was ended with diplomacy, but if it hadn't been for the hurt Maegor brought to them, they would be mounting Targaryen and dragon heads on the walls of King's Landing rather than lay down their arms.

Wardship in the North? Well that worked very well the last time, because it highlights the fact that blood is blood and family is family. No way that Aegon will forget or forgive those who toppled his family and killed his father.

The Watch and Silent Sisters can be subjected to violent threats from which the unwilling initiaties can be broken out by their supporters. The sheer ammount of oathbreakers in the Watch should give a historical case that those words are indeed wind.

[LordStoneheart]

Yes it was completely evil. It may have been arguably practical during a succession war, but you're neglecting to include succession and war about it in the evil category. :)

[RedShirt47]

Westeros has mechanisms in place to strip someone of a claim to the throne. Aegon could have been kept in Robert's, Stannis' (or Ned's, preferably) custody until he was old enough to ship of to The Wall. Rhaenys could have married Renly.

....

Not a bad idea to foster (hostage) them.

Although Aegon and Rhaenys would likely be as much trouble to the Seven Kingdoms as Daenerys and Viserys were. Had they been exiled to Essos then there would have been four beggar princes and princesses instead of two.

So there were options. But killing them would have been safer for the Seven Kingdoms.

[WinterKraken]

Not a bad idea to foster (hostage) them.

Although Aegon and Rhaenys would likely be as much trouble to the Seven Kingdoms as Daenerys and Viserys were. Had they been exiled to Essos then there would have been four beggar princes and princesses instead of two.

So there were options. But killing them would have been safer for the Seven Kingdoms.

Had there been all four of them in Essos,they would have cut each other's neck.

Edit:Now that's a very good way to get rid of them all without child-blood on your hands.

[Red Tiger]

The war was ended with diplomacy, but if it hadn't been for the hurt Maegor brought to them, they would be mounting Targaryen and dragon heads on the walls of King's Landing rather than lay down their arms.

Wardship in the North? Well that worked very well the last time, because it highlights the fact that blood is blood and family is family. No way that Aegon will forget or forgive those who toppled his family and killed his father.

The Watch and Silent Sisters can be subjected to violent threats from which the unwilling initiaties can be broken out by their supporters. The sheer ammount of oathbreakers in the Watch should give a historical case that those words are indeed wind.

The only reason wardship didn't work was because the lord of WInterfell was 15 and an idiot and he was only put in charge because of a massive war started with the death of his family.

[Lion of the West]

The only reason wardship didn't work was because the lord of WInterfell was 15 and an idiot and he was only put in charge because of a massive war started with the death of his family.

The problem is that it shows the ward can't be turned to the desired mould. And from a warden, he can be rescue by his supporters and friends to raise the banners of the rebellion once more. Or the warden himself can decide to advance himself by lifting the banners for Aegon if he would come to disagreement with the king. Or if not he then their children can raise the banners further down the line. We've seen that personal relations between Houses seldom lasts for generation after generation and thus it would be a huge risk to the crown to give this kind of thing to one of his bannermen.

[Greenfyre]

murdering children is an atrocious, belly aching crime i know but they were royal children. If tywin had gone the honorable Ned way and spared them, they would've become the centre piece of generations of civil warfare and anarchy.

I don't see how we can be sure of that. Aegon at least could easily have been raised in a distant location without ever being told who his parents were, or causing any possible "generations of civil warfare." All it would take is dumping him in an orphanage in Essos.

Rhaenys... harder to say for sure. But presumably it could be explained to her that her identity must always remain a dead secret.

[Red Tiger]

The problem is that it shows the ward can't be turned to the desired mould. And from a warden, he can be rescue by his supporters and friends to raise the banners of the rebellion once more. Or the warden himself can decide to advance himself by lifting the banners for Aegon if he would come to disagreement with the king. Or if not he then their children can raise the banners further down the line. We've seen that personal relations between Houses seldom lasts for generation after generation and thus it would be a huge risk to the crown to give this kind of thing to one of his bannermen.

You forget something very important. Theon was already about 9 years old when he was taken. Aegon was a baby and Rhaenys was what 4 years old?

[Red Tiger]

I don't see how we can be sure of that. Aegon at least could easily have been raised in a distant location without ever being told who his parents were, or causing any possible "generations of civil warfare." All it would take is dumping him in an orphanage in Essos.

Rhaenys... harder to say for sure. But presumably it could be explained to her that her identity must always remain a dead secret.

She's a girl and the minute she marries the Targaryen name goes with her, unless she marries within DOrne or something and with each generation the name loses value.

The only reason Aegon and Danaerys are dangerous to Westeros is because 1 has the Golden Company and the other has Dragons. And Aegon only has the Golden Company because he was forced into exile with JOn Connington and Dany the dragons for exile and magic.

[Lion of the West]

You forget something very important. Theon was already about 9 years old when he was taken. Aegon was a baby and Rhaenys was what 4 years old?

That he was and that could make a difference. Yet still I think that the same problem would exist as existed with Theon. He isn't one of them and if it comes to push his warden must be ready to take his head.

[Caesar Augustus]

nope. Thank you Gregor for removing more crazy dragonspawn from the planet.

[bent branch]

Yes.

[Red Tiger]

That he was and that could make a difference. Yet still I think that the same problem would exist as existed with Theon. He isn't one of them and if it comes to push his warden must be ready to take his head.

I agree with this, but it still doesn't change the fact that the real reason wardship didn't work is because the King in the NOrth at the time had very poor judgement. No sane lord would have allowed Theon to go.

[Lion of the West]

I agree with this, but it still doesn't change the fact that the real reason wardship didn't work is because the King in the NOrth at the time had very poor judgement. No sane lord would have allowed Theon to go.

The question isn't about letting him go, its about preventing him from escape or being broken out.

[Red Tiger]

The question isn't about letting him go, its about preventing him from escape or being broken out.

Well something else we need to keep in mind, is that Theon's family was still alive and in power, escape only matters if you give the kid something dangerous to go to. Rhaenys and Aegon could potentialyy go to Dorne, but that's it (they're not the heirs). If you spare Elia and the kids, Dorne will hold no real grudges I think. Again, I think the real problem STARTED when Tywin killed the kids.

[King of Vaes Tolorro]

When Troy was sacked, the women and daughters were sold into slavery. But the sons were thrown off the walls. This was done so they wouldn't avenge their fathers'.Like it or not, Aegon and Rhaenys were a threat to Robert and his reign. Eli a did not need to die, but they did.

[Lion of the West]

Well something else we need to keep in mind, is that Theon's family was still alive and in power, escape only matters if you give the kid something dangerous to go to. Rhaenys and Aegon could potentialyy go to Dorne, but that's it (they're not the heirs). If you spare Elia and the kids, Dorne will hold no real grudges I think. Again, I think the real problem STARTED when Tywin killed the kids.

Eh, no. If the kids are placed with Targaryen loyalists we'll have a Red Dragon version of the Blackfyre Rebellions at first oppertunity. That you don't learn from history is painfully obvious here. The real problem started when Jon Arryn called his banners.

When Troy was sacked, the women and daughters were sold into slavery. But the sons were thrown off the walls. This was done so they wouldn't avenge their fathers'.Like it or not, Aegon and Rhaenys were a threat to Robert and his reign. Eli a did not need to die, but they did.

Exactly!

That's why you kill the sons.