RoamingRonin Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I've seen it said multiple times the Others will pale in comparison to Dany's eventual arrival in Westoros. So no doubt there will be a Wall in the north in a Wall in the south. One for the Others and one for the Mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Joy is like 8 years old. So no, probably not taking up arms against Dany. And using her is a straw man because Dany has killed exactly 0 children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I don't find her to be inherently dishonorable so much as inconsistent. She argues for the letter of the law when doing so benefits her, and does dishonorable things when doing so helps her.You could argue that might makes right and superior firepower gives her her rights. The flip side though is that Robert's superior firepower gave HIM the right to rule Westeros and depose her father.This. Dany is trying to be a good person in general. However, hypocrisy rears its ugly head many times. You lose credibility from this point on. Fuck honour. Throughout history,"honour" has been used as an excuse to justify all sorts of shit, from misogyny to sanctioned murder via duels. Is Dany "dishonourable"? Probably. Doesn't take away from her being a hero. :ack: Without honor, why would i bother following any set of morality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWinter Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 And using her is a straw man because Dany has killed exactly 0 children. Wouldn't you count all the 13-year-olds killed in Astpor as children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Wouldn't you count all the 13-year-olds killed in Astpor as children? I do, Dany doesn't. She was 13 when she was considered adult, no surprise she considers 13 year olds adult. I've already said Astapor was a blood bath that shouldn't have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 This. Dany is trying to be a good person in general. However, hypocrisy rears its ugly head many times. :ack: Without honor, why would i bother following any set of morality? What does honour have to do with morality? It is simply blind dedication to societal norms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'm not quite sure why her opponents being the vilest makes it any better for Dany to what she does ? Is she a self appointed judge jury and executioner ? Because there is no such thing an international court of justice, or a Geneva convention etc. in this world. The only option against such societies is cowboy style vigilante justice (if anything is to be done at all). It is bad for someone to be judge jury and executioner when it actually makes sense to speak of judge, jury, and executioner. Which it doesn't in this case. Astapor is a vile and evil society with essentially no redeeming qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 What does honour have to do with morality? It is simply blind dedication to societal norms. lol. Honor is morality. You confuse honor with stubborn following of status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 What Dany did at Astapor at Astapor was break a pact. That's objectively dishonorable. The respective morality of Dany and the Good Masters is a different issue. Perhaps it is. But I would find it acceptable along the same lines as finding Jaime's killing of Aerys honorable, even if objectively an oathbreaking. Some concerns must trump the 'letter of honor' when the 'spirit of honor' is being violated in such a manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'm guessing that in her Neanderthal way of thinking, she would think it appropriate to execute any three random Lannisters, regardless of their actual guilt in the deaths of her family. Maybe naming the kids as examples is too much, fine. But I'm troubled that "meh all Lannisters suck, she can do what she wants" is getting trotted out. Then again I think saying every single Frey should be killed is also pathetically simplistic, so maybe it's me.Westeros is in need of some actual justice, definitely. That Dany is the one to effectively administer it is a joke.I very seriously doubt GRRM will take her in this direction. Especially after what Robb did to Karstark. I don't think the idea is to develop her into a character that the reader is meant to see as truly nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Daenerys has the honor of a back alley whore. Which is also what she was born as :P Evidence please, or I'll assume you just made it up to troll this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 lol. Honor is morality. You confuse honor with stubborn following of status quo. No. I find it difficult to verbalise this correctly but "honour" is at least in part a sort of societal pride, A woman sleeping around before marriage loses her honour, breaking an oath is dishonourable and the lower classes have no honour to begin with,see? Honour, like chivalry is not moral-it may have some roots in morality but it is societal in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Dany's has no sense of honor. Instead she has her gut to do her thinking. If her gut says you should die you shall die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Not exactly dishonorable but in no way honourable either. She's quite good at shaping honour into what her current needs dictate - and in her head, she always comes out smelling like a rose, no matter her struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thornhart Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Evidence please Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 No. I find it difficult to verbalise this correctly but "honour" is at least in part a sort of societal pride, A woman sleeping around before marriage loses her honour, breaking an oath is dishonourable and the lower classes have no honour to begin with,see? Honour, like chivalry is not moral-it may have some roots in morality but it is societal in nature. Theres a problem with being proud of where you come from? When i speak of honor, i speak of personal honor. (and its quite sacred to me.) You are talking about the outdated sense of honor. Chivalry shouldnt be gendered just as honor shouldnt have to be status quo. Lying is dishonorable. Killing in cold blood is dishonorable. Respect is honorable. And yes, breaking oaths is dishonorable, but a person should not make an oath they cannot keep. ;) Opening a door for an elderly man is chivalrous. Donating to charities is both chivalrous and honorable. Your view is too extreme and narrow. And extremely gendered. |:[ Dany's has no sense of honor. Thats rubbish. She does have a sense of honor. She is somewhat inconsistent in keeping it at times, but she has one. She honors her husband, Drogo by giving him the pyre she felt he deserved. She honors the slaves by trying to free them. Dany is not on Ned's level when it comes to this, but saying she lacks honor is just plain exaggeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Honor is a horse, not a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Imperator Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Wow. Hajk really drank the kool-aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I very seriously doubt GRRM will take her in this direction. Especially after what Robb did to Karstark. I don't think the idea is to develop her into a character that the reader is meant to see as truly nasty. She tortured to innocent girls, crucified 163 people without knowing if they were slavers, and has used slaves, seriously this is not nasty to you? Oh an Astapor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Are you serious? Are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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