stateofdissipation Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 They live in a huge castle what suppose to do lock in is room? Robert needed saving and Lannister's need punishing. Littltefinger was never a boyfriend to her and she did not think her sister was crazy. Her daughters worry with mad men who abused them or wanted to abuse them. She died before Petyr rescued Sansa or when Arya went East. Sending Theon was a bad idea to begin with he knew to much and Robb's only leverage on Balon. If Robb did not have the balls to kill him that was his fault. Now are you going to read our post or continue to just skim? Umm if you cant trust him yes lock him or have somebody watch him... Littlefinger killed Jon Arryn... not the lannisters... Littlefinger challlenged Brandon for the right to marry her.... and she didnt know he thought he was.... she knew her sister was crazy after the Tyrion trial... her daughters worry with her is dead like the two she was watching.... She couldnt even get dying right... theon's head was the leverage.... and apparently that didnt matter to Balon... credit for Theon idea granted if blame for Freys and Littlefinger and Lysa and Tyrion accepted.. Judging an choice based on unforseeable events is either right or it is not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Man you are a dick, you most hate it when mothers scream or go into depression after learning their son or daughter was hurt. Karstarks sons died in battle, Bran and Rickon were belived to be hunted down and skinned and burned. I have no problem with it... i just refuse to accept it as a character strength... it is weak and nonproductive... Karstarks deserved revenge as much as Cat did.... Theon deserved punishment more than Jamie.... Cat still robbed the Karstarks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I have no problem with it... i just refuse to accept it as a character strength... it is weak and nonproductive... Karstarks deserved revenge as much as Cat did.... What is more important safety of two girls or his vengeance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 What is more important safety of two girls or his vengeance? Not to mention Karstark's remaining son who was also being held captive at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Karstarks deserved revenge as much as Cat did.... Theon deserved punishment more than Jamie.... Cat still robbed the Karstarks I don't believe that I am saying it but I agree. Totally agree. What is more important safety of two girls or his vengeance? I would say the girls but is there anyone at all, who believes that the girls would have returned back to Cat, if she was alive of course. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 She couldnt even get dying right? Seriously, if youbare going to continue to come out with comments like this, I strongly advise that others take the steps I am taking and stop.commenting on the thread. Oh, and based on your comments so far, if Cat had locked Bran in his room to stop him climbing she would have been branded the wicked mother forbnot letting Bran have freedom. To say Catelyn is in any way responsible for Bran being THROWN fromba window is utter stupidity and completely groundless. Goodbye *leaves thread* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I have no problem with it... i just refuse to accept it as a character strength... it is weak and nonproductive... Karstarks deserved revenge as much as Cat did.... Theon deserved punishment more than Jamie.... Cat still robbed the Karstarks Vengeance for what? Jaime killed them on the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don't believe that I am saying it but I agree. Totally agree. I would say the girls but is there anyone at all, who believes that the girls would have returned back to Cat, if she was alive of course. Anyone? That is more Edmure's fault then Cat's he made it an escape not a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd Tollett's One Vote Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 The Frey alliance was the only one Cat forged...She failed at the attempted Stannis-Renly alliance. The lannisters were already attacking the Riverlands so the Tully alliance was there before she did anything. Well Cat went mad with grief over Bran's injury. Come to think of it mad with grief seems to be her default status.The Boltons meeting Jamie was the major problem. Roose then knew the Starks had lost their strongest card. Not only that Roose releasing Jamie gave him a way to escape Lannister revenge.So yes Cat was responsible for the Bolton betrayal. Her knowing or should have known is kind of pointless she made it happen.Now back to her alliance making. Cat promised marriage for crossing a damned bridge. The Freys didnt march with them. That was the crappiest weakest deal she could have made. The Freys were cowards. Walder Frey talked big but had never actually engaged in war. Hoster Tully had called him the late walder frey.... If it came to a fight he would have caved. Cat got bluffed by Walder. If she had stood up when walder said 20k corpses... he would have stopped her and negotiated. Cat makes a threat... Walder makes a threat. Cat says lets negotiate. Caving made her the loser. In caving she took the army off the table.Bolton meeting Jaime isn't what made him to decide to switch sides. He had already made the deal with Tywin before, hence why he sent Jaime on his way so kindly. And the freys were a large part of Robb's army, if they weren't then no one would have cared if he lost them. It's also why Cats upset that he traded the Freys for the Westerlings, because the Westerlings didn't provide them with many men. Yeah, Cat could've threatened but why when it was easier to make a deal and get their troops and support? As for Stannis and Renly, no one could've negotiated with them when all they would've accepted was Robb giving up his claim as "King of the North."At any rate, I'm not saying that releasing Jaime didn't hinder Robb's cause. I agree it wasn't a good strategic move. I'm arguing that there was no reason for her to make the deal with the Freys and leave, because she couldn't have known that she wouldn't be needed to broker a deal again, or offer good council for Robb (which I think she generally does... He just doesn't necessarily listen)As for Cats default mode being mad with grief, lol yeah. I can see that but she does have good reason to be . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Umm if you cant trust him yes lock him or have somebody watch him... Littlefinger killed Jon Arryn... not the lannisters... Littlefinger challlenged Brandon for the right to marry her.... and she didnt know he thought he was.... she knew her sister was crazy after the Tyrion trial... her daughters worry with her is dead like the two she was watching.... She couldnt even get dying right... theon's head was the leverage.... and apparently that didnt matter to Balon... credit for Theon idea granted if blame for Freys and Littlefinger and Lysa and Tyrion accepted.. Judging an choice based on unforseeable events is either right or it is not... She did trust him he lied, and for the most part his fall was complete Jamies fault. How does she know this? Most people let that stuff go and he rose high under the patronage of her sister's husband. Again how does knowing after talking to Ned change thing? She was watching no children, she could not go north after the ironborn besieged the neck. You just used highsight, and it does not take hightsight to see letting a HOSTAGE with a lot of information is a bad idea. Stop polluting this thread with your half ass sexiest troll answers and return to what ever hole you came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 That is more Edmure's fault then Cat's he made it an escape not a trade. Really? Do you really think that the Lannisters would just free Sansa, and Arya if they had her, because they got Jaime back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Really? Do you really think that the Lannisters would just free Sansa, and Arya if they had her, because they got Jaime back? Both Jaime and Tyrion seem like they would have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Really? Do you really think that the Lannisters would just free Sansa, and Arya if they had her, because they got Jaime back? The Lannisters are unjust murderous assholes I will give you Cat shouldn't have saw them as people and not the dogs they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 The Lannisters are unjust murderous assholes I will give you Cat shouldn't have saw them as people and not the dogs they are. From what Cat knew, she shouldn't ever believe that she would take her daughters back, that way at least. If Jaime hadn't lost his hand he would have been the same man he was for the last 2.5 books and Tyrion was the man she imprisoned. So how could she believed them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 What is more important safety of two girls or his vengeance? what is more important.... half the army or the safety of two girls? and you need the army to keep the girls safe..... so giving up half the army doesnt help the girls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd Tollett's One Vote Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Really? Do you really think that the Lannisters would just free Sansa, and Arya if they had her, because they got Jaime back?A Lannister always repays his debts. It's one of the things they're most known for. I don't know if they would have, but it's not crazy of Cat to think that they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 what is more important.... half the army or the safety of two girls? and you need the army to keep the girls safe..... so giving up half the army doesnt help the girls... You are TV watcher, Karstark brought 2000 men . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd Tollett's One Vote Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 what is more important.... half the army or the safety of two girls?and you need the army to keep the girls safe..... so giving up half the army doesnt help the girls...Half the army?? What? How did they lose half the army? Freeing Jaime lost them the Karstarks. I could be wrong but I don't believers at the Karstarks were so large that they represented half of Robb's army.That said, I agree that Cats decision was not a wise one strategically. She is at fault for this. However, it is a realistic decision for a mother to make. To me, it simply makes Cat human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 A Lannister always repays his debts. It's one of the things they're most known for. I don't know if they would have, but it's not crazy of Cat to think that they would. Come on let's be serious. There were not even the remote possibility that they would freed the most precious prisoner(s). They are not that stupid, they may be bad persons but not stupid. After all they don't owe something to the Starks or Cat, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Come on let's be serious. There were not even the remote possibility that they would freed the most precious prisoner(s). They are not that stupid, they may be bad persons but not stupid, Again both Tyrion and Jaime seem like they would have been up to it if they had the power to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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