[Book & Show Spoilers] Too much King's Landing?

[Winnief]

Ok, looking at IMDB, I noticed that Rafe Kenning aka one of the IB captains will be appearing in the final episode of Season 4 which definitely means some IRon Islands and IB this season, since Rafe didn't appear until AFFC.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Yeah, that will be great-but as you point there's a limit to how much screentime they can give that, and all the other good characters will be elsewhere. So KL is bound to retreat a little at that point....

I think the time previously spent solely at King's Landing will simply be split between the capitol and Dorne, since the two story lines are fairly intertwined. My guess is that Ellaria will replace Nymeria on the small council, the High Sparrow will be introduced and be given a small sub-plot involving Tyene Sand, and the 'major' story lines for these locations - Doran and Arianne seeking their respective styles of vengeance, and Cersei versus Margaery (and everything that entails) - will remain largely intact.

[The Onion Sleight]

Okay, I'm not a big fan of the show for many complex and probably petty reasons, but I am willing to admit that massive changes need to be made in order to boil ASOIAF down for television (whether it should ever have been adapted in the first place is a different question). It seems to me, however, that David and Dan's biggest problem is that they're afraid to stray too much from King's Landing. This wasn't an issue in the first season, but it started to become one in the second, and really reared its head last year. Judging by the first two episodes of season four, the trend is going to continue.

Now, King's Landing features many of the show's best actors. It's at the center of much intrigue. And it would be perfectly fine if it were receiving simply a plurality of screentime, more than any of the other storylines individually. But it's now receiving a majority of screentime - more than all the others put together - and that's going to hurt the show in the long run. ASOIAF is about - primarily - the War for the Dawn, and the Song of Ice and Fire. The buildup to those elements takes place primarily in the non-KL stories, many of which (Jon, Bran, Stannis) have never really been given their due or handled well in the show, while others (Arya, Dany, Theon) have been inconsistent at best. Thoughts?

I completely agree. But it's not just KL centered. I noticed that they really like to concentrate on the Lannisters moreso than the Starks. And maybe I can understand since they might find them more interesting but it hurts the story. Because learning about how Tywin treated Jaime's dyslexia isn't nearly as important as learning about the Tower of Joy, the Knight of the Laughing Tree, the Great Other and the AA prophecy.

I agree, too!

It was okay in Ep.1 and of course absolutely understandable in Ep.2, but I hope they don't continue with having (nearly-)only-KL-episodes / KL + other storylines as secondary plots-episodes.

Yup, it was definitely too KL centered in season 3 (The QoT is great, scenes like this one in "The Climb" are very awesome - all the Shae / Pod "The Womanizer" Payne / Sansa-should-marry-Loras scenes less), look at the characters' screentimes of this season: http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/game-of-thrones-characters-screen-time-season-3.

There are so many things I don't understand (but I won't dwell on this, because it really bums me out and makes me raging :bang: Shae and Talisa both had more screentime than Stan and Daario nearly as much as him!?! :bang: ), but season 3 is gone, so now to season 4:

Yeah, they have to stick heavy to KL and Tyrion's trial now (and I'm so looking forward to more Oberyn and later Red Viper vs. Mountain) and naturally in season 5 because of Cersei's plot (I always liked her POV), but KL shouldn't remain the show's central location (The deaths and leavings of several people will be helpfull for it, I guess)!

As Black_Goat said: The main point of ASOIAF is not the wars of the different kings, the civil wars or fights for the IT, it's the fight against the greater threat (for the whole realm), the War of the Dawn and so on.

The show needs far more focus on this in the future and this means, they have to give fewer screentime to their beloved characters and more to those they neglect / hate (We all know, of which characters I'm talking about -.- ...).

I think adapting AFFC and ADWD will be very difficult for them, and I wonder how they will manage season 5 (and 6 and 7) :dunno: .

I have to admit: I'm pretty biased when it comes the storylines of the last books.

One (of maaany) reason why I love SO MUCH the ADWD's North storyline is, that we have characters like Stannis, Davos, Theon, Jon, Asha, Roose (all six characters of my Favourite Top 10), Mel, Mance, (in TWOW it seems more and more) Bran (and Rickon), Ramsay, and so on and their storylines connected together.

We have many parties and groups (NW's members, Wildlings, Stannis' host: queen's / king's men, Roose's host, Freys, Ironborn, Northmen, Clans, Iron Bank of Braavos...) who are involved in the North's plot, who have to handle other groups, fight together, fight against, having different motivations / goals, having the same motivations / goals, having their own plots, meeting with others, leaving others... .

We have so many obscrurties (like the Pink Letter, the Hooded men, who rallies to who, Manderly, Howland Reed(?), (GNC?), Skagos...);

topics (the mankind's future, a king's duties, a LC's duties, vengeance, loyality, treachery, compromises, different "stakeholders" (I'm not sure if this is the word I mean, English isn't my native language), religions and magic, the prizes and costs, the own identity (weather it's in "Remember your name"-Reek/fArya-way or the "What decisions should I make as a leader"-Jon/Stannis-way), the lasting love to and importance of House Stark... *sigh*, the list's too long);

prophecies, the main characters and their inner conflicts and problems; we can assume, Bloodraven&Bran and Mel will play important roles in the future, the most of us everyone (Is there really one who isn't?!) is totally excited about the coming Battle of Ice; we know the Others will appear at one point of the story (oh, yeah, and I forgot: It's finally really winter)!

Bringing that on TV is difficult and I'm not sure how they could manage it accurately, if they maintain their course. A course...

- I don't really like in how they show the Wildlings (too less Mance, Thenns are cannibals, no horn, Tormund's member jokes?!...),

- I hate in how they portray Stannis (I won't begin here complaining about it, the now 19 pages of "A Balanced Review of Show Stannis" say everything to this :bang: :crying: :bawl: ) and -IMO- neglect Davos (Damn, he's one of the very few MAJOR POVs!) <- and I love Stephen and Liam!

- I feel some sort of "neglected" in Jon's case (but I know this will change in the later episodes / seasons);

- I'm confused about Asha (and her plans, the book changes, Balon still alive... Well, I will have to wait and see),

- with Bran it's... difficult, because they are now so much into his later arc (I like his scenes, I absolutely don't think he needs more things to do than he does in the books, but more explainations maybe about his stuff),

- I also think the show needs FAR more explainations about the past events, stories, prophecies (all the things said by Van West),

- but -that I must say- I totally loved Reek/Ramsay/Roose till now! (It's a mix of my love for Theon, Roose being my favourite ASOIAF-villain, the incredible(!) good actors, and I think the shaving-scene is my new favourite scene of the entire show now! * :bowdown: to Alfie, Iwan and Michael* ).

I wonder what they will do in season 5 (or 6, or the end of this season) with all the new characters in the North who should -actually- appear (fArya/Jeyne, Val, Alys Karstark, the huge bunch of Northern vassals, e.g. Wyman Manderly, the Mormonts, Karstarks, Glovers, Umbers, Lady Dustin, ...),

and of course the new Dorne and Iron Islands people, but I expect that they will cut many of them (and problably -unfortunately- many locations, too. Although I will always hold on hope for Deepwood Motte and the Ten Towers. I want the Reader so much! :bawl: ).

(Surely, AFFC & ADWD are so much more than only the North, but that's some sort of personal matter of mine and I fear so much more for this plot than KL, Riverlands, Eyrie, Essos all together (especially not the Essos stuff. I couldn't care less about what happens there <_< , but with Dany AND Tyrion AND Arya there, I consider D&D must be big Essos lovers more and more), and I'm still not sure what to think about Dorne & the Iron Island, but I'm PRETTY sure no one has to fear for fAegon!)

I hope we'll see more respect for all the non-KL-storylines (in the next episodes?) and -I know that's probably too optimistic- certain *cough in a Gyles Rosby way* characters give way to other certain charaters (in the next seasons?)!

[The Onion Sleight]

but but..... all the cool brothels are in KL!

And there are those magnificently squeaky chairs that are such fun when you drag them around the small council chamber!

/s

Yep one area has received far too much emphasis to the point of invented scenes for minor characters at the expense of what are clearly more important stories.

Ah, damn, you're right! It's a great pity that there aren't any brothels direct in / at Castle Black (only in Mole's Town, pff...) or Winterfell or the Crofter's Village or Bloodraven's cave; sigh, so I know, I was expecting too much for the future...

I'm absolutely sure, there're some in White Harbor and definitely at the Three Sisters, so they can at least using Davos (before he comes to Lord Borrell / goes to Lord Manderly) for their sexpositions, by making him ask around and listen to gossip in a brothel instead of a shady tavern (hey, it's anyway nearly the same, isn't it? And I can remember two(?) prostitutes there tried to make overtures to him).

So maybe at least his storyline will have much screentime next season :P.

[Onna Lewyys]

I've always thought the North is where the real stuff is happening. And it's where most of the storylines are starting to converge in the book. I'm hopeful for S4, but I've been very disappointed in how D&D have mishandled those storylines on the show up till now. Especially Jon's and Bran's.

Really no time at all was spent on Jon learning from the free folk and developing a grudging respect for them last season. He barely even spent any time with Mance. And it appears as though very little effort was being put into making Bran's journey seem at all interesting or thematically important. They could have at the very least included the scene where Bran's group meets that guy in the mountains:

"It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf's dead and the young one's gone south to play the game of thrones, and all that's left us is the ghosts."

"The wolves will come again," said Jojen solemnly.

"And how would you be knowing, boy?"

"I dreamed it."

But apparently those things aren't as important as an entire season devoted to wedding planning in KL.

[The Onion Sleight]

I've always thought the North is where the real stuff is happening. And it's where most of the storylines are starting to converge in the book. I'm hopeful for S4, but I've been very disappointed in how D&D have mishandled those storylines on the show up till now. Especially Jon's and Bran's.

Really no time at all was spent on Jon learning from the free folk and developing a grudging respect for them last season. He barely even spent any time with Mance. And it appears as though very little effort was being put into making Bran's journey seem at all interesting or thematically important. They could have at the very least included the scene where Bran's group meets that guy in the mountains:

But apparently those things aren't as important as an entire season devoted to wedding planning in KL.

:agree: Thank you, that are the points I was looking for and what I meant with the feeling of neglecting and rushing too fast and messy through their storylines.

Edited: I have to say that I've developed some sort of great respect for (nearly!) every person fighting in the North in ADWD, weather they're NW crows, wildlings, Northmen, queen's men, a Braavosi who rides straight through a blizzard, IB, kids, or whoever, simply for being there and going through this icey hell and the disrespect / ignorance of the other Westerosi shitting on the North.

I really wanted to send some Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells, LF and Essos charas to the North to see how THEY whould handle worries about so essential things like food (Stannis&Co starving, Jon&Co -before Tycho- running out of food) or warmth or how to be prepared against the winter (... and the Others... and Boltons and Freys... and sometimes your own people like Bowen or the Karstarks... yeah, treachery and threats everywhere... I totally don't envy guys like Stannis or Jon, but I've MUCH respect for them and the others like Davos, Sam -even he's now in Oldtown-, Bran, and so on... yeah, also for Theon)

[Annara Snow]

There was definitely too much King's Landing in season and it consisted of a lot of annoying filler, when the focus should have been on the Riverlands. It was insane that Tyrion had so much screentime and that Cat has so little.

In season 4, the focus on KL is a absolutely justified. It's one of the two biggest storyline in the second part of ASOS, and the Wall story only gets going later on. The focus is especially justified in these two episodes. And this is the season when the Lannisters really should be front and center - next season they will be dead or scattered, and KL won't be in the focus anymore. The North and Essos should be the main locations.

Agreed. Meereen Mental Asylum would be fun to see. I hope they don't forget to show Dany going all targaryen over Meereen by showing her on the verge of insanity.

They won't, but it will pale compared to the Castle Black Mental Asylum, which will be much more fun, since Stannis is far further gone than the verge of insanity. :)

[Guard of the Rainking]

As far as "filler" goes the S3 KL stuff was great. If you wanna talk bad filler talk about season 2. Jon and Ygritte instead of Jon and Qhorin, Robb and Talisa instead of introducing Brynden and Edmure and the Qartheen side-plot.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

They won't, but it will pale compared to the Castle Black Mental Asylum, which will be much more fun, since Stannis is far further gone than the verge of insanity. :)

Ohkay. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[oierem]

Really no time at all was spent on Jon learning from the free folk and developing a grudging respect for them last season. He barely even spent any time with Mance.

How much time did Jon spend with the Wildlings in the books? How many chapters? And how many scenes did he have with Mance?

[Queen of Whores]

How much time did Jon spend with the Wildlings in the books? How many chapters? And how many scenes did he have with Mance?

Jon actually has less scenes with Mance in the books than in the show. In ASoS, the only scenes Jon has with Mance are when he first meets him, the Fist of the First Men, and the parley near the end, the last one not even having been on the show yet. Although I do fault the show for not making Mance more interesting or likable, I don't blame them for not increasing his role, since it's accurate to how it's been in the book so far.

[Mr Fixit]

Although I do fault the show for not making Mance more interesting or likable, I don't blame them for not increasing his role, since it's accurate to how it's been in the book so far.

Mance has his lute even in the show - you can see it in his tent in 3x01 - which gives me hope we'll get a more interesting version of him down the road.

[Queen of Whores]

Mance has his lute even in the show - you can see it in his tent in 3x01 - which gives me hope we'll get a more interesting version of him down the road.

If he's playing and singing the Dornishman's Wife as Jon enters his tent for the parley I'll completely forgive all past characterization. It would be so awesome. Hopefully the lute was included for future use, and not just a little nod to book readers.

[Onna Lewyys]

Jon actually has less scenes with Mance in the books than in the show. In ASoS, the only scenes Jon has with Mance are when he first meets him, the Fist of the First Men, and the parley near the end, the last one not even having been on the show yet. Although I do fault the show for not making Mance more interesting or likable, I don't blame them for not increasing his role, since it's accurate to how it's been in the book so far.

In ADWD, though, Jon flashes back to conversations he had with Mance at other points that we hadn't read about before, so there was certainly room (and reason) to expand that relationship on the show.

[Angmar]

Just watched that chart...

It's pretty much insulting how Bran, one of the main POVs, has less screentime than secondaries like Margaery or Ygritte.

Hell, it's insulting how low Sansa is.

[Born Sinner]

Just watched that chart...

It's pretty much insulting how Bran, one of the main POVs, has less screentime than secondaries like Margaery or Ygritte.

Hell, it's insulting how low Sansa is.

Yeah, but that goes on GRRM's cap (cap? is that right? English is not my mothertongue). Bran has 6 chapters in three books where most of the times nothing spectacular happens. D&D are already pushing Brans story way forward. They could do fillers but many people are complaining already that Brans story moves too slow

[SM4e]

Yeah, but that goes on GRRM's cap (cap? is that right? English is not my mothertongue). Bran has 6 chapters in three books where most of the times nothing spectacular happens. D&D are already pushing Brans story way forward. They could do fillers but many people are complaining already that Brans story moves too slow

Seems pretty German to me. :D

Regarding Bran: I don't think his story should be dragged out anymore. He just does not have to appear as often because in the books he does not have any importance regarding the main plot yet (excluding Theon I, TWOW) and therefore the show should just show him in like four episodes a season. In my opinion his Season 3 plot was very dull and by far the least interesting part of the show. Just let him arrive at Bloodraven's cave in 4x10. Whatever happens in Seaosn 5 is a puzzle for everybody but D&D. We do not know in which degree Bran sees things that may be relevant to the main plot. As long as he does what he does in Theon I, TWOW I'm fine.

[Onna Lewyys]

Just let him arrive at Bloodraven's cave in 4x10.

Oh please god let it be sooner than that. I'm calling 4x07.

I agree that Bran doesn't have to appear often. But when he does appear, I would have hoped his scenes would have something more to them than Meera & Osha fighting about how to skin rabbits (who cares!) or Bran waking from a dream to find Jojen staring at him (that's literally all that happened in one of his episodes!).

[SM4e]

Oh please god let it be sooner than that. I'm calling 4x07.

I highly doubt that. If you have seen the name of the tenth episode of Season 4

The Children

one can say for very sure that it won't happen before then. And Alex Graves stated that Episode 10 has a battle that requires huge amounts of CGI, which - in my humble opinion - fits Bran's battle.

[Rhaquentis]

1. It's only been two freaking episodes.
2. Most of the intrigue and shocking things occur in King's Landing this season in particular. Then comes the Wall and then Meereen. They are following the books.
3. I'd love to see this thread again next season though. :rolleyes: